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-   -   Indiana HS Officials...need your help!! (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/31753-indiana-hs-officials-need-your-help.html)

mick Tue Feb 13, 2007 03:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
I'm a little distressed that tjones was the only one on here that picked up on this. After reading this comment in the article, the question should be "what else does he have incorrect in his rant."

Before giving him credit for being right, let's examine whether he feels the way he does based on the fact that he's wrong.
What do any of us need to correct ?
What if the pivot is lifted and a dribble starts?
Maybe Tanner and you were the only ones that actually understood the coachspeak. :)

Nevadaref Tue Feb 13, 2007 03:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops
Anytime a player has an advantage (AI-break way)and the defender who trails him (B1) does anything to impede his action other than make a play on the ball, it has to be a foul. If two players are running up the floor w/out the basketball and you can determine that the back of the shoe was stepped on incidentally or accidentally then you may not have a foul, but put the defender behind the ball on a breakaway and you better have a call or be prepared to have several thousand pissed off people after you.
More garbage. :(

1. I don't care how many people are pissed off or happy. I don't poll the audience before I make a call.

2. Why does having the basketball matter? What is this fixation of yours with the ball? Either accidently stepping on the back of an opponents shoe is a foul or it is not a foul. You can't say it is a foul in this case, but not in that case. That is capricious.

Jurassic Referee Tue Feb 13, 2007 03:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops
but put the defender behind the ball on a breakaway and you better have a call or<font color = red> be prepared to have several thousand pissed off people after you</font>.
That's where I do have to agree with Nevada. Whether you're going to have several thousand people pissed off at you is <b>never</b> a factor when you make a call. You never call anything in a game <b>ever</b> to keep fans, players or coaches happy.

mick Tue Feb 13, 2007 03:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
That's where I do have to agree with Nevada. Whether you're going to have several thousand people pissed off at you is never a factor when you make a call. You never call anything in a game ever to keep fans, players or coaches happy.
Never is pretty strong.

I've seen some fans, players and coaches pretty dang happy to see an ugly coach removed.:)

tjones1 Tue Feb 13, 2007 03:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
I'm a little distressed that tjones was the only one on here that picked up on this. After reading this comment in the article, the question should be "what else does he have incorrect in his rant."

Before giving him credit for being right, let's examine whether he feels the way he does based on the fact that he's wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
What do any of us need to correct ?
What if the pivot is lifted and a dribble starts?
Maybe Tanner and you were the only ones that actually understood the coachspeak. :)
I think it's clear he doesn't understand the rule. He stated a travel should be called and is a "missed call" as soon as the pivot foot is lifted. I just understood he was wrong! :D ;)

Who knows... anyways...it's a snowing like crazy here. Plus several inches of ice. Classes were cancelled (as well as all games in the area) for the first time in 29 years on campus.

tomegun Tue Feb 13, 2007 04:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
tomegun,
There's nothing wrong with what you say, but there are times, when all my "off-ball players" have a nice spacing between themselves, that I'll take a look at the ball 50' away. There are other times when a fast break is (moving the other way) parallel with a partner, that I may be looking to help with contact away from my partner.
There's may only be two of us, and one of us may need help. ;)
Mick, try to think of it this way. We train for perfection knowing we might have to make adjustments or freelance as the situation dictates. However, we still plan for perfection.

There are no absolutes. But when you train with the wrong form, you perform with the wrong form.

Kind of like saying the right thing when the kids are listening knowing full well you might have to deviate to save the day!

tomegun Tue Feb 13, 2007 05:00pm
Mick, are you snowed in having some beverages? You sure are using the :) today.

mick Tue Feb 13, 2007 05:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
Mick, are you snowed in having some beverages? You sure are using the :) today.
Just Java.
Oddly enough, we are partly cloudy with a lot of blue. Cold, but the sun keeps the spirits high.
That IL, OH, IN thing looks nasty ! http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/...Yikes_anim.gif

MajorCord Tue Feb 13, 2007 08:45pm
Don't leave us hanging!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
BTW if you wish to discuss accidental contact, what criteria do you use to decide when to call a foul and when not to on that type of contact?

What would you call on this play:
B1 falls to the floor at the FT line. A1 is dribbling the ball and doesn't see B1. A1 trips over B1, falls to the floor, and loses the ball. B2 gets the ball.
Nevada, what is the answer?

bob jenkins Wed Feb 14, 2007 09:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorCord
Nevada, what is the answer?
FED: Play on. B is entitled to the position on the floor.

NCAA: Block on B.

Indy_Ref Mon Feb 19, 2007 02:16pm
Appreciate all your comments & emails to old Coach T! From a very good source, speculation is...he has gotten over 1000 emails from coaches, officials, & fans from across the country. In fact, he posted an apology recently...

http://www.hoosierauthority.com/Spor...id=164&id=4380

;)

DC_Ref12 Mon Feb 19, 2007 02:22pm
I don't know who this guy is and I don't know how "good" of a coach he is. I don't know his W-L record and frankly I don't care because the statement below tells me all I need to know about what "kind" of a coach he is:

Quote:
I can’t really apologize for the way I felt when I wrote that article. Please keep in mind that it came on the heels of a gut-wrenching defeat. Losing has always brought out the worst in me.
That, folks, says it all.

JoeTheRef Mon Feb 19, 2007 02:37pm
What would you call on this play:
B1 falls to the floor at the FT line. A1 is dribbling the ball and doesn't see B1. A1 trips over B1, falls to the floor, and loses the ball. B2 gets the ball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
FED: Play on. B is entitled to the position on the floor.

NCAA: Block on B.
Is the FED answer correct? Would both FED & NCAA be blocking? I understand B is entitled to the position on the floor, but is he in a legal guarding position? If I have this play in my HS game, I'm probably calling the block and telling the coach if asked, the player never established LGP.

bob jenkins Mon Feb 19, 2007 02:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTheRef
What would you call on this play:
B1 falls to the floor at the FT line. A1 is dribbling the ball and doesn't see B1. A1 trips over B1, falls to the floor, and loses the ball. B2 gets the ball.



Is the FED answer correct? Would both FED & NCAA be blocking? I understand B is entitled to the position on the floor, but is he in a legal guarding position? If I have this play in my HS game, I'm probably calling the block and telling the coach if asked, the player never established LGP.
The play, as described, has nothing to do with LGP. LGP gives the defender "extra" rights, but B is still entitled to the spot on the floor (literally) provided he gets there first legally.

MadCityRef Mon Feb 19, 2007 03:29pm
How about IHSSA referees boycott his games? His AD must endorse his behavior, but other ADs in his league will get peeved when they can't scrape up anyone decent.

Schools need us more than we need them.


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