Indiana HS Officials...need your help!!
 

If you are an Indiana HS basketball official, or if you're an official who is interested in what some jackass coach (and EX-official, I might add!) thinks about "the state of game"...including officiating, read this link:

http://www.hoosierauthority.com/Girl...mid=61&id=4314

For any of you who've had Coach Todd Salkoski roam the sideline in one of your games, you know what a complete jackass he can be. For those of you who've never had the "privilege," allow me to enlighten you.

Back when I was still officiating girls' basketball in Indiana, I was "blessed" with his presence twice. The last time I was so "graced," his team Shenandoah was playing a rivalry game vs. one their most hated opponents, New Castle. After his team's VERY FIRST POSSESSION of the game, he gets up and walks to my partner who was @ the C position and exclaims, "Is that the way it's going to be today? Am I coming into this building to get screwed again like I always do!?!?" In retrospect, I wished my partner would have whacked him right then & there...20 seconds into the game. However, since this was my partner's first experience with him, it took him by surprise...and he didn't do anything. From what I've heard about Salkoski, he may have known my partner had never seen him before, so he thought he could get away with it. He tends to push the officials as far as he possibly can before he gets the stop sign. After that, he normally picks & chooses his moments when he offers his opinion on our calls. He was a pain in our asses that whole day...but he didn't "test" the other 2 of us that day like he did our 3rd.

What galls me the most, is this guy was considered a decent and respectable official when he worked ballgames. For those of you who do not want to click on the link, Salkoski used to officiate for 10 years prior to becoming a coach, after which he quit officiating. He was asked to give a "state of the game speech" and write a journal for the Hoosier Authority website as he prepares for the upcoming Indiana state tournament. He believes the game itself has "never been better", the coaches have "never been better" (love the way he breaks his arm patting himself and his profession on the back), but the state of officiating has gone down the toilet.

This idiot obviously has NO IDEA how hard most of us officials work to become better...more qualified officials. No...he is self-absorbed in all the games he's coaching in the summer months of June & July, "free of charge of course!" just to help his girls get better. He is blind to the fact that most of us work 11-12 months of the year, go to multiple camps...that we PAY to go to!, watch hours of game film, discuss plays over & over, read & re-read rules again & again, etc., etc.! We all have a certain level of ability & a certain amount of "the gift" that the good Lord has given us. The best officials are working VERY HARD to maximize these talents. ALL of the guys I schedule games with do ALL of the things I've listed above. For all of the guys & gals I know who put so much time & hard work into this avocation called officiating, I will not stand by and let some ex-official butcher us without allowing us a chance to defend ourselves.

If you read the article after clicking on the above link, please feel free to email Mr. Salkoski your thoughts, or share your thoughts in the Girls' Basketball Forum by clicking on that link at the end of the story! Mr. Salkoski can be reached @ [email protected].

Thanks!

He has an interesting theory on the "missed" travels... too bad lifting your pivot isn't a travel until you dribble or return it to the floor. :rolleyes:

His first complaint is that he has seen many officials that aren’t ready to work girl’s varsity yet. I don’t know about Indiana, but in the area of California that I’m in, we are short on officials. I was worked some varsity games this year(my 2nd year of officiating) due the shortage.

Does Indiana have rules against public criticism of officials? The NFHS Coaches Code of Ethics state: “The coach shall respect and support contest officials. The coach shall not indulge in conduct which would incite players or spectators against the officials. Public criticism of officials or players is unethical.”

After reading his article, this guy sounds like one of the biggest A**holes around. As tjones mentioned, he doesn't even know what constitutes a "travel". He complains about a lot of missed calls, but I'm sure he'd b1tch plenty if they were called against his team.

tomegun, who is from Indiana, will be so happy to hear about officials giving this guy the stop sign. :D

BTW how can one officiate for 10 years without knowing what traveling is? :(

I have three comments and I know one will not be welcomed.

1. I think his first comment is accurate. I don't know about everywhere, but in Southern Nevada, Maryland/DC and Mississippi high school officiating isn't where it should be. The people on this board are a small percentage of officials; many other officials do not work hard on anything except getting their checks.
2. Why did the OP go into a game with this coach without telling his partner about the coach in pregame? He said the coach surprised the official 20 seconds into the game.
3. Hopefully, I made my position clear in another thread concerning the stop sign. The OP mentions the stop sign like it is a necessary step towards this coach getting a T. This is one reason I don't care for it much. This coach seems to repeatedly display bad sportsmanship in a high school game. This is high school! If this coach does this constantly, he should constantly get a technical foul. IMO, this is one of the main problems with the high school game. Coaches and players do not display good sportsmanship and technical fouls aren't given enough.

BTW, I'm sooooooooooooo dissappointed in Indiana basketball for going to multiple classes.

Salkoski - "I remember 10 years ago when I was out scouting, it seemed like very few coaches were out watching other teams play. Maybe it is just me, but everywhere I go now the crowd always has five to seven other coaches watching future opponents play."

Seems the state of coaching in Indiana is lagging. 44 years ago my high school team had scouting reports before each game, not from the head coach but by a designated scout.

I can attest that the same is true in Northern Nevada. :(

I can also agree. Officiating in my little corner of the world in VA is not what it should be. To be frank on most nights I get embarrassed by what some of my collegues do. We too are short on officials, and this sometimes puts younger, less experienced guys on the floor. Many of our older officials do not have a good understanding of the game. IMO here is the problem: Officials in my area receive I nice PAYDAY. It's easy money. 3 man crews. Most work 3-5 games a week. The money is attractive, even if you have no clue. The open book test are a joke also.
Last week I was the L on the baseline, quick steal. My partner wasn't ready for the change of possesion(boys game, very fast). He quickly spinted behind the two players. Team A who had just stolen the ball was being chased by Team B. Player A was in the act of taking his 1-2 for the lay-up, when he went to the floor hard and the ball rolled out of bounds. Player B stepped on the back of his shoe and they both hit the ground. My partner has::::NOTHING. Team B's ball. I wanted to just crawl under the bleachers. This call was made with 2 min left in the 1st period. As you can imagine the fans and coaches were on us all night. It makes everyone look really bad. We have some great officials in our association as well. However, you put two bad ones with a great one and you have 3 bad ones. LOL

Nate, can you talk about how you helped this young official and made him better? Not to be rude but it seems like, just from this post, that you have spent most of your energy "crawling under the bleachers" and groaning at his mistakes rather than taking a deep breath and creating a teaching opportunity.

We young officials NEED HELP. We can't do it alone. We're gonna make mistakes and if you come after us with a red face and smoke comin' out of your ears, it's not gonna help. Put your arm around us, teach us. Don't just get frustrated with us.

Thanks.

It was only my 2nd game with this guy. He was not too bad the first time. After this game, and after speaking with several other officials across the state, I found out just how much of an a$$ he is.

So are 65% of the people in Indiana. The other 35% of the population either don't care, are the coaches @ small schools, or are the only ones (principals & school administrators) who could decide such a fate. :(

Sh!t, I'm a pretty decent official who works an all Varsity HS schedule and a few JuCo games and I still make a couple calls a year that make me want to crawl under the bleachers. We all blow calls. It's the ability to recognize your mistakes on your own and then learn from them that leads you to being a better official and separate you from the pack.

As a young official, your partner may not have known he missed a called. First chance you get you ask him what he saw on the play. After replaying the play in his mind he might say "You know what, I think B1 probably did trip A1. I probably should have had a whistle on that play." More than likely that's a play he'll never miss a again.

Excellent post. And point. Something for all of us to to think about.

I am very hard on myself. I strive to be as perfect as possible, knowing full well that its unrealistic to expect perfection in a avocation this difficult. But, what really bugs me is the veterans who are more concerned with whether they got Regional or state final games. The veterans who are more concerned with "getting a flow" than getting the right call. How many times have you heard the words "call the obvious" in your pregame and then seen a fellow official bypass the whistle so that the game can develop a "flow"?

I have noticed that certain associations have a stronger quality of officials than others. I cringe when I get a partner from one association (fortunately its only been twice this whole year) as I have yet ever seen a good one. So while I don't think its as bad here as other people are saying, it could still be better.

Sorry guys, but I didn't say that he was a young official. This was a guy who has been doing varsity games for about 6 years. The coach ask me why there was no call and all I could say was "I'm not sure coach." At the half, I asked what happened on the play (acting as though I didn't see it) and my partner replied with "they just got tangled up, nothing worthy of a call." I said, "could it possibly have been a trip or push." He replied, "no, are you saying that you think I blew the call." CONVERSATION OVER.

My experience and I would hate to agree with coaches, but most of their complaints are that officials can't and won't admit when they missed a call. When coaches disagree or get on officials many of them take it personal. The guy missed the call. There is nothing wrong with saying "yes coach, I missed that one." To often, and I see this with partners every night, we get defensive and take it as an insult when we are questioned.

I am all for helping the younger officials. I miss my share of calls as well. BUT YOU KNOW WHEN YOU MISS A CALL. Not being able to admit it is where some officias get into trouble. Making bad calls and thinking you made the correct one is how officials get a bad rap. In the situation I just described, my partner left the gym thinking the INCIDENTAL CONTACT from behind isn't a foul. He argued with the coach about the play until he finally had to T the coach. And the sad thing is..........it will be a no call tomorrow night, followed by a T as well.

I wonder- did this coach stop to think that he (and his kind) are responsible for for the lack of officials? The reason there are "new" guys doing games is because he has run off the experenced people. It's not fun working games for coahes like this. They yell on every call and belittle you infront of the whole town.

The flip side of this is that there are times when the official did not miss the call, but the coach thinks they did. And when the official doesn't admit it to them they interpret that to mean that the official won't admit he's wrong.

We shouldn't admit we're wrong when we aren't. If an official doesn't think he missed one then he cannot be expected to act like he did. We just have to find a professional way to communicate under these circumstances.

I think it is also important to point out some things about coaches.

I don't mind if a coach talks to me (talk being the operative word) and asks me questions about calls to a certain point. I do mind if a coach yells at anyone on the crew, makes borderline comments and displays unsportsmanlike conduct. I've had coaches yelling across the floor at one of my partners (rightfully so) and I told the coach, in a calm voice, that yelling across the floor wasn't going to do anything to help the situation. The coach, who is one of the few good coaches in this area, realized I was right and stopped yelling. I constantly tell them the official will work his/her way around to them in the natural rotation and they can ask the question then.

I have recently been sickened by the conduct of many coaches in the Gulf Coast area. I was recently in DC and got a chance to work a few games. Since I worked the games here then DC and here again I got a chance to compare the players and coaches in a short span of time. Surprisingly, the players in Mississippi can compete with the players in the DC/Maryland area with the exception of the Washington Catholic league. The difference is the coaching. I wouldn't want my kid anywhere near most of the coaches here. They are so concerned about the officials, but they can't teach there kids the fundamentals of the game. They can put on nice suits, but can't make sure there kids are learning how to be responsible on the court.

Exactly, of course. Absolutely, if you think you made the right call, then stand strong. That's not what I was alluding to. You hit the nail on the head...the magic word is communication. Most coaches and many officials have no idea how to communicate.

You are right and I think it is almost mandatory to tell coaches during pregame that you will answer questions, if possible, but you cannot answer every comment.

I had one just the other night where the coach acted like an idiot. However I also realized later that if I had just slowed myself down a bit and better explained the call he may not have taken the opportunity to expose himself himself as one. : > )

You are probably right. However, it is not your job to explain the rules to coaches. I am not at all saying that. What I am saying is that many officials have such a hard time dealing with coaches b/c they take a coach's questions to be personal insult.

Anybody else notice that he signed off as "Coach T?" Sounds like that might be the right name for him. :D Maybe an official in Indiana can write their "state of the game" point of view.

All I read was the first post and the article; I'm not from Indiana and I've never officiated in Indiana. I think it is pretty embarrassing that this coach used to officiate at the varsity level and he can't take anything he learned and apply it to his point of view when it comes to coaching. Why anyone who has officiated would ever hang other officials out to dry (regardless of their current position within the sport) is beyond me. That's pretty sad.

One of my partners who worked one of the games Coach Salkoski comments on IS writing one!!

;)

He seems like the type that from now on will be unable to view any calls he doesn't like without thinking the officials are getting back at him for writing this article. I can hear his next line now...."You guys are just trying to screw me because of that article I wrote."

Then he should have thought about that before he wrote the article. There are consequences for just about everything you do.

Peace

Agreed. I think he's created a problem for himself. Perhaps this is one reason among others why there are prohibitions against doing what he has done.

I went ahead and wrote the guy...thought I'd pass it on. I could be way off base, here, though...correct me if you think I was out of line:

Coach -

Read your article. Not saying I disagree on all the points you've made, but you should know that not every "bump" should be labeled a foul....contrary to what your article suggests. I do disagree that the bumps on the rebounds, even though brought down by the player fouled, should be called every time. Most of the time we don't call these, as the contact doesn't affect the play. Our job as officials are to get the fouls that mean something to the game because they affect an opponent's speed, agility or direction. When we start blowing the whistle at everything, it's bad for the game, bad for the teams, bad for the fans. If you'd rather see all the guys/girls foul out of a game than watch a contest of athleticism and ability (and I'm not saying this to be rude) then you should probably get off the sideline.

By the way....did you notice that your baseball reference was a contridiction to the point of your article? When it comes to basketball, as the level gets higher, the calls get looser (not tighter) and players are expected to play through contact they may not have experienced in Jr. High/JV stuff. If we start calling "touch" fouls, at the varsity level, then we are not preparing them for the next level, and doing a great disservice to the players.

Now I only referee men's basketaball, both at the high school and college level. Perhaps over on the girls side, the players should be treated like...I don't know...girls?

Take care,

Mike

You were unreasonably kind. : > ) But that's probably good.

Atta boy!! :D

Not only that, you didn't say anything about his "favorite missed travel" -- you know, the one that isn't a travel. ;)

I find this very interesting and yet true. This definitely would cause some recruiting issues.

I find it interesting that this coach says we don't call all the pushing and contact, but when we do step up and start calling everything, than this same coach will say we call too much. You can't have it both ways coach!

Personally, I don't like to call a lot of traveling violations. In order to get the marginal travels like what the coach is asking for. That means I got to focus on the players feet. As sure as sh!t, I'm sitting there looking at the feet and miss something obvious right in front of me. Coach would be even madder at me then. Like I said, can't have it both ways. This coach, unfortunately, has a hidden agenda.

Maybe you are too close to the play.

When I first read this thread yesterday, I wasn't going to bother to respond, but after you continue to spew such nonsense I am compelled to reply.

So why you are watching these two players sprint down the court right in front of your partner on a play that you ARE NOT going to make a call on even if you think there is a foul? If you aren't going to help, then you shouldn't be looking there.

Also, who is watching the other eight players who are behind the play while you are ball-hawking your partners play? Someone could have punched someone or clocked an opponent with an elbow and you would have had no clue what happened.

You partner's explanation sounds pretty good to me. Perhaps that is why he is a six year veteran of varsity ball and you are ....???

It is solely your opinion that he missed the call. Do you call a foul everytime one player steps on another's foot?

Finally, I hate to break it to you, but incidental contact is NEVER a foul, and it doesn't matter from which direction it occurs--the front, the side, or the back. You need to spend more time reading the rules book, especially 4-27 "Incidental contact is contact with an opponent which is permitted and which does not constitute a foul," and less time criticizing your partner's calls.

Sorry, I don't buy it. I have a hard time seeing how a trailing player tripping an opponent is just incidental contact. Defender was at a disadvantage. Defender's action overcame that disadvantage with contact that created an advantage. That is not incidental contact.

4-27 is the definition of incidental contact. Art 2 only talks about unintentional contact on a loose ball or when both players are in equally favorable positions. I don't see how chasing the offensive player puts both in equally favorable positions.

Art 5 is the clincher however.

Sorry, I gotta side with the Nate on this one. Lead did swallow his whistle on that call as it was explained.

Actually, you are debating whether or not the contact WAS incidental. I'm not going to do that.

Nate used the words "incidental contact from behind" and implied that his partner wrongly believes this isn't a foul. I'm telling him that while he is busy criticizing his partner, he might want to go look up the definition of incidental contact because by rule it isn't a foul and his partner is correct to leave the gym believing that.

I didn't see the play. I can't make a judgment on it. All I can go by is the words of calling official, and I'm getting them secondhand. That official said that the two players got their feet tangled and that it wasn't worthy of a call. If my partner said those words to me, then that would be good enough for me. I certainly wouldn't come on an internet forum and trash him as Nate has been doing.

Who knows what really happened down there on the other end of the court from Nate? He certainly shouldn't. He had his own area and players to watch, but obviously he wasn't. Remember all we are getting is his side of it from probably at least 1/2 of the court away.

Nevada, you didn't get the memo. Many people think it is OK and justify watching the ball all over the court.
We constantly hear, "Let's get the call right" even though the right call might be a flagrant elbow off-ball that is missed because the action with the ball is more interesting. I don't want to jinx anyone, but all it will take is a puddle of blood, an irate coach, an irate parent and an official physically near the play who doesn't know how it happened for some people to learn.

tomegun,
There's nothing wrong with what you say, but there are times, when all my "off-ball players" have a nice spacing between themselves, that I'll take a look at the ball 50' away. There are other times when a fast break is (moving the other way) parallel with a partner, that I may be looking to help with contact away from my partner.
There's may only be two of us, and one of us may need help. ;)

Okay first of all, I have been doing Vboys for about 10 years, with some DIII mixed in. Second of all, I had a clear view of my area. The change of possesion was so quick that the only two players on the floor that knew the ball was going the other way was A1 and B1. Your comment about incidental comment is STUPID!! There is a big difference between INCIDENTAL and ACCIDENTAL contact. This is where YOU and MY PARTNER are wrong. Did B1 mean to step on the Back of A1 foot as A1 went up for the dunk!! NO!! So according to your response, this isn't a foul. My partner said that it was incidental contact, which is a total misapplication of the rules!! I hope that this clears things up for you. Anytime a player has an advantage (AI-break way)and the defender who trails him (B1) does anything to impede his action other than make a play on the ball, it has to be a foul. If two players are running up the floor w/out the basketball and you can determine that the back of the shoe was stepped on incidentally or accidentally then you may not have a foul, but put the defender behind the ball on a breakaway and you better have a call or be prepared to have several thousand pissed off people after you.

Nate,

The quote from Nevadaref regarding incidental contact is taken from the first sentence of 4-27 (NFHS) verbatim. Now, whether the contact was incidental or not is another story.

Yes, it was. That is not what is in question. What is in question is incidental/accidental contact. See the described play and decided for yourself whether you would rule it incidental contact.

I'm a little distressed that tjones was the only one on here that picked up on this. After reading this comment in the article, the question should be "what else does he have incorrect in his rant."

Before giving him credit for being right, let's examine whether he feels the way he does based on the fact that he's wrong.

Nate, you are the one that said it was incidental contact. You wrote that in post #15. I merely told you that the rules say incidental contact isn't a foul.

You never used the word accidental prior to post #40.

BTW if you wish to discuss accidental contact, what criteria do you use to decide when to call a foul and when not to on that type of contact?

What would you call on this play:
B1 falls to the floor at the FT line. A1 is dribbling the ball and doesn't see B1. A1 trips over B1, falls to the floor, and loses the ball. B2 gets the ball.

What do any of us need to correct ?
What if the pivot is lifted and a dribble starts?
Maybe Tanner and you were the only ones that actually understood the coachspeak. :)

More garbage. :(

1. I don't care how many people are pissed off or happy. I don't poll the audience before I make a call.

2. Why does having the basketball matter? What is this fixation of yours with the ball? Either accidently stepping on the back of an opponents shoe is a foul or it is not a foul. You can't say it is a foul in this case, but not in that case. That is capricious.

That's where I do have to agree with Nevada. Whether you're going to have several thousand people pissed off at you is <b>never</b> a factor when you make a call. You never call anything in a game <b>ever</b> to keep fans, players or coaches happy.

Never is pretty strong.

I've seen some fans, players and coaches pretty dang happy to see an ugly coach removed.:)

I think it's clear he doesn't understand the rule. He stated a travel should be called and is a "missed call" as soon as the pivot foot is lifted. I just understood he was wrong! :D ;)

Who knows... anyways...it's a snowing like crazy here. Plus several inches of ice. Classes were cancelled (as well as all games in the area) for the first time in 29 years on campus.

Mick, try to think of it this way. We train for perfection knowing we might have to make adjustments or freelance as the situation dictates. However, we still plan for perfection.

There are no absolutes. But when you train with the wrong form, you perform with the wrong form.

Kind of like saying the right thing when the kids are listening knowing full well you might have to deviate to save the day!

Mick, are you snowed in having some beverages? You sure are using the :) today.

Just Java.
Oddly enough, we are partly cloudy with a lot of blue. Cold, but the sun keeps the spirits high.
That IL, OH, IN thing looks nasty ! http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/...Yikes_anim.gif

Don't leave us hanging!
 

Nevada, what is the answer?

FED: Play on. B is entitled to the position on the floor.

NCAA: Block on B.

Appreciate all your comments & emails to old Coach T! From a very good source, speculation is...he has gotten over 1000 emails from coaches, officials, & fans from across the country. In fact, he posted an apology recently...

http://www.hoosierauthority.com/Spor...id=164&id=4380

;)

I don't know who this guy is and I don't know how "good" of a coach he is. I don't know his W-L record and frankly I don't care because the statement below tells me all I need to know about what "kind" of a coach he is:

That, folks, says it all.

What would you call on this play:
B1 falls to the floor at the FT line. A1 is dribbling the ball and doesn't see B1. A1 trips over B1, falls to the floor, and loses the ball. B2 gets the ball.

Is the FED answer correct? Would both FED & NCAA be blocking? I understand B is entitled to the position on the floor, but is he in a legal guarding position? If I have this play in my HS game, I'm probably calling the block and telling the coach if asked, the player never established LGP.

The play, as described, has nothing to do with LGP. LGP gives the defender "extra" rights, but B is still entitled to the spot on the floor (literally) provided he gets there first legally.

How about IHSSA referees boycott his games? His AD must endorse his behavior, but other ADs in his league will get peeved when they can't scrape up anyone decent.

Schools need us more than we need them.

I do not think that is realistic. I think he has put a big fat bull’s eye on his back though. I am sure some officials will keep that in mind when he starts complaining about calls and behaves as a total jerk. I do not know of boycotting is going to completely work. I am sure officials already know what kind of coach he is or is not.

Peace

Gotcha bob, by rule, what do you mean "provided he gets there first legally"? I'm trying to picture the play where B1 tripped and is laying on the floor, where A1 who as player control doesn't see him and trips over him.

And please understand, I ask as a learning experience, and not at as critical point of view. THanks.

Play: Clueless B1, distracted by something shiny in the stands, stops at the top of the key and stares at the bright object. A1 rebounds a shot in the middle of the lane and turns to go up court. He contacts the still clueless B1, gathers the ball and takes three steps. Ruling: traveling. B1 was entitled to the spot on the floor. Since B1 was never facing A1, B1 never had LGP, but that doesn't matter.