Coach refuses to sit down
 

Coach has been, as coaches go, fairly silent regarding the officiating up to this point. Coach reacts to play on the court and stands calling for a foul. Referee calls a foul at about the same time, but Coach continues to stand, although is now simply talking to his team. Referee tells the Coach to sit down and Coach responds by saying "I don't have to sit down". Referee repeats his request and Coach continues to stand. Referee gives the Coach a T. Coach was at all times in the coaches box, in fact, coach never moved from in front of his chair. Was the T warranted?

depends what the area rule is about coaches standing. In soCal coaches have a box and are allowed to stand. If that is the case an official CANNOT tell a coach to sit down. That can only be reccommended or suggested AFTER the 1st direct or indirect T on the coach.

When I coached boys HS I got a T for this because the official told me to sit down for the rest of the quarter and I responded with "you are out of line telling me to sit down". Always let a coach bark first -- if you are the first to bark and he responds and you dont like it that's baiting and wrong IMO.

In WI varsity head coaches have box and can stand throughout game in them. Officials cannot tell them to sit - and cannot T them for "not sitting".

UNLESS the coach has receive a T. Once he has received a T - directly or indirectly - he loses the privledge of standing in the box. If he does not sit after the T - he will receive another and be gone altogether. This is only for head varsity coaches and not for assistants or at any other level.

1) deecee made a good point. If official 'barks' first, then do not assest a 'T' if the coach 'barks' back.
2) In Missouri, it is called a "Coaching Box", not a "Standing Box". If they want to observe the game, then it should be done while their butt is in the chair.
Also, just because they are in their "Coaching Box" this does not give them privilege to yell at the officials.

Something that is working for me....in my pre game with the coaches, I say " coach, we are enforcing the coaches box tonight"...not a warning since I started to use that line and I had 3's "T" for the box before that.

In Maryland, we use a coaches box too. Is there any where left that doesn't use a box?

Maybe yes, maybe no. You needed to see the whole "play" (with the coach).

Referee's call. T given - T works.

Nonsense. A coach has every right to stand in a coaching box.

Agreed......

ITs been a while since I was on the darkside, but when I coached, WATCHING the team fail to execute BEFORE I YELLED AT THEM, was part of my coaching!:D Of course, I never, ever yelled at the officials.

Exactly! Part of coaching is observing the performance of your team and of the other team in order to make adjustments. Imagine if we had to referee form a seated position. Could we see as well? So, even if a coach says absolutely NOTHING while standing in the box, he IS coaching. In fact, he might even be one of the best coaches.

I don't know where exactly in STL you call but on my side of the river (the Missouri river that is...) that philosophy would not be good for advancement. ;)

Now if this guy is the Assistant...."T" is appropriate.

Also in Ohio, while we have a coaching box, it must be marked and equal for both team as far as aproximate length 14' and distance to the table. If it is not marked... there is no box.

Home admin usually gets out the tape when I tell them that pregame.

wow 14" -- so i can stand on 1 foot but i cannot pivot it because i will out of my cage...

You better not have size 15 shoes on my court....

Sorry typo

If I see there is no box marked, I always wait for the coach's meeting at 3:00 to tell them---No Box, No Standing. Its always worth a private laugh when the coaches panic and scramble to get the box marked.:D

I know, I know. It's wrong.:D But I can't help it.:D :D

Our instructions are not to start the game until the coaching box is marked.....

As I said. Per Rule, it is a Coaching Box. It starts 28 foot from end line and goes 14 feet towards the end line. I have yet to see an Official enforce the box as it is written. Coaches have been at Mid-Court and have been at the baseline w/o being penalized. I am not going to be the first one to 'T' a coach for being out of the box. I have seen many 'Senior' officials that do not enforce this rule, so I just follow along.

You have your meeting at 3:00??? WOW! That would be late in WV. . .

It may or may not deserve the T, but it's silly for the coach to argue like that. Just sit down, shut up, and then stand again when the ref isn't in your face. This kind of facing off is pointless.

julie why is is silly for the coach to argue like that and not silly for the official to make such a request. This thread actually touches me in places Michael Jackson would love to have explored 20 years ago but I received a T for the exact same reason. I think sometimes we get on coaches here just because we are supposed to but the answer to the question that was posed is that from what information we are given the T was not warranted.

The coaching box is one of the greatest tools we have as officials when a coach gets out of line. If a coach is on me for anything, he better be in the box, because that's the first place I'm going to tell him to go.

Had a sitch last weekend where I called an intentional foul on a kid cutting through the low block that threw an elbow on his opponent. I knew the coach was going to want an explanation and he was half way to the scorers table by the time I got up to report the foul. First thing I did was send the coach back to his box. He turned and started going, and I was on my way to follow him when he turned and started bellowing at me about "seeing the whole play." His tirade ended with a what I will call a 2 footed stomp, which promptly earned him a T. This was early in the 2nd quarter. To his credit, he remained seated as required for the rest of the game as his team won a close game.

Just out of curiousity, the original coaching box was 6 feet. Now, without my books handy, I believe the rule reads that the box may be "up to 14 feet" in length. Our state has remained at 6 feet. Anyone else done that, or use something in between?

Yes its standard to Have a captains meeting separate from the coaches. So for varsity we go Captains at 12:00; book at 10:00, coaches at 3:00. For JV/Frosh we go Book at 10:00 captains at 8:00 coaches at 3:00.

NV: Book at 10, Captains at 3, Coaches at 2.

Earlier this year, I asked a coach to have a seat on the bench. He stared at me and did not move. I said: "Coach, please take your seat on the bench." He again stared and did not move. I said: "Coach, I'm not looking for trouble, but this is the third and final time I'm going to say this. Please take your seat on the bench." I then placed my whistle in my mouth. When he did not immediately comply with my request, I granted him a T. Of course, this particular coach was an assistant coach. (A partner was talking to the head coach and this assistant was trying to enter their conversation.)

As for head coaches, if there is a coaching box privilege that has not been lost, we officials are in the wrong if we ask a coach in her or his box to "sit down" while they are in the box. We can and should address what else is happening (e.g., what is being said), but not the fact that the head coach is standing.

Ditto for VA.

There has to be more to this story, and I witnessed this exact same thing happen in a JR. Varsity tournament this year. The said coach had been ranting at the official the entire game, the official had called the foul on the said coaches player and the coach went nuts while standing in his box. The official told the coach "that's enough coach, you need to sit down", the coach replied, "you can't make me sit down" The technical was given and the coach sat down and didn't say another word the rest of the game.

ok go get the poppedcorn
 

maybe bring a fire suppresent because I have a can of gas and am about to apply it to the fire LOL.....:D

I personally would like to see the coaching box abolished...(ok here comes the gasoline)...I think they should be able to roam as they do in the college ranks...I personally don't care to look and make sure the coach is in their "cage"....I understand that some think it is a tool...I am of the mind, if they say something inappropriate, I don't care if they are in or out of their box, if it deserves a "T", they get it, regardless of where they are located. I also am of the mind, that if they are coaching, I don't really care where they are...yes I direct them back to the box, but it would be much easier to not have to worry about it.....

Amen to that!

If he is coaching his team and you haven't given him a T already, Why were you asking him to sit down?

Ok, maybe the official was trying not to give the coach a "T". Maybe it's the way the coach told the official " you can't make me sit down". "Ok coach, that's enough, you need to sit down" (this should be a warning to the coach), coach: With his chest stuck out, and pointing his finger at the official, and screaming at the top of his lungs..." You can't make me sit down". I think that warrants a "T" and if he doesn't sit then, I give him another and wave good bye.

why does that warrant the T -- the coach was baited -- you asked him to do something you have no right to and when he didnt comply you gave him a T because, once again, you asked him to do something out of your juridiction.

if you need a coach to relax say something like

"Coach shut the @#$@#$ up" or "Coach I cannot have you act like that after a call you disagree with, however I will address any of your questions should you ask them in a respectful manner."

there you gave your warning and you even offered a solution. Much better than "Coach Sit down." unless he's hairy, runs on all fours and has a tail -- that will only lead to more problems.

I see no problem with your example, although if he hasn't been issue a T before that incident, why is he asking the coach to sit down. yes tell him "coach enough", "Coach you've said more than I want to hear", " Coach you are treading thin waters" many different coments. even the famous "hand". I just wouldn't have told him to sit down, we all know once a Bench T has been issue, you loose the coaching previlages of standing, if no prior T was issue I would not tell a coach to sit down.. IMO

DEECEE, you took the words right out of my mouth. as you can see you described it much better than I have.

I'm just saying that from the coach's point of view, pragmatically, it seems wise to me to just skip this battle. With a ref that's on the verge, why put him over the edge?

With that quote in mind, here is a situation that happened to my wife two weeks ago. (varsity girls coach - single A school in Va.) This is her side of the story.

After a called foul, she beckons one of her players over to the bench to talk to her. While she is talking she hears the calling official say "Coach, Coach" and thinking she is out of her box, does a little backward jump, realizes she is indeed already in her box, and goes on talking with her player. Again she hears "Coach, Coach", looks at the official and he is waving her back because she is in his line of site with the table while he is trying to report the foul. She says to him "Aren't you supposed to come out to the middle of the floor to do that?"

Tweet! Technical Foul on red coach. - She sits down.

Even though Her team won the game she is not a happy camper when she gets home and starts asking me what she can do about it. I've been in this situation before and know I have to be careful to stay on solid ground. After all she is my wife and controls a lot of things that happen and don't happen around the homefront. I told her there was not much she could do about it as the ref probably thought she was showing him up.

My next question was "have you got that on tape?" Two days later I am watching the tape and starting to believe she was telling the gospel truth. The only thing I can't get from the tape is the tone she used to communicate her question.

Took her three days to get over it.

BRAGGING HERE: She finished up undefeated in her district and gets an automatic bid to regionals with a team that didn't win a single game last year before she took them over.

response to rain --

in theory yes, and that would be the nice, easy thing for the coach to do. But the official is way out of line IMO.

My T I received in this instance

about 4 minutes in the second quarter -- I ask the ref "What was different about the contact on that side of the floor than what just happend here?" (it was the same block/charge that both went against my team.) I asked the question calmly and respectfully. His response "coach I have heard enough and you better sit down for the rest of the half."

I responded with "I just asked you a question and you cannot force me to sit down." WHACK -- I just sat down as there was not point. Communication works 2 ways.

I get annoyed when I see officials order and boss coaches around outside of their scope of responsibility. WE are there to make sure the game is played fair and on even grounds.

Juulie didn't disagree with this. The ref was out of line, in all likelihood. The coach had the right to stand. But, it's never going to do any good to argue. In your situation, I'd have sat down. Then, as soon as play started, I would have stood and coached my team; not saying a word to the refs. If he Ts me up for coaching in the coaching box, then I've got a better argument for the governing authorities.

Randy, what tone does she usually use when she's not happy with you? :D

Well, considering that you questioned the official's judgment and integrity by intimating that he was favoring the other team, I'd say that some kind of warning was in order. Unfortunately, he gave you the wrong kind of warning, but you should have known anyway that any response that you made at this point to a pissed-off ref was gonna get you whacked.

It's fine to ask what your defender did wrong to get called for blocking. Instead, you just basically used the old "call it both ways" instead. Some officials, and that includes me and the one in your game, don't take too kindly to that one.

JR -- I didnt use the old "call it both ways" -- it was the same exact play, in the same location of the court with the same sevrity of contact. I think thats a fair question. If event A leads to penalty B that is fine but when it leads to penalty C or D I would like a clarification and I would hope if I was officiating and a coach asked me the same question I would respond with WHY the calls were different. He doesnt have to agree but its a fair question and its legit dialogue between coach and official IMO.

I wouldn't mind a the question as posed by deecee. It's far better than crying, "call it both ways." It actually assumes there's a difference and wants to know what the difference was.

I enforce the coaching box because it's my job, but I agree. I'd be thrilled to give them the entire 28 feet from the baseline up.

Down To Endline Coaching Box
 

CMatthews: I almost agree with you. I wouldn't mind if the NFHS extended the box all the way down to the endline, after all, a lot of coaching can be done from there, the coach can coach his or her defense in the first half and his or her offense in the second half. I just don't want coaches standing in front of or near the scorer's table. It would be distracting to both the scorekeepers and the officials.

That why I prefaced the post with "This is her side of the story".:D