New poster

[rockyroad]

I'm not really one of those people that "goes out" with the refs very often either...I like to get home to my wife and three sons and spend time with them...however, when I was younger and trying to "move up" I realized that the social aspect had a huge impact on my position within the association. So I made compromises with my wife and kids and sacrificed some time with them...at this point in my life/career I can look back and see both the positives and negatives to those compromises...would I do it again - yes. Because those sacrifices (which really in my case were only every other Friday evening after games) helped me get where I am...like it or not, there is a lot of "politics" in officiating, and to be successful, sometimes you have to play that game - I just like to think that I manipulated the game somewhat to my benefit.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I'm not really one of those people that "goes out" with the refs very often either...I like to get home to my wife and three sons and spend time with them...however, when I was younger and trying to "move up" I realized that the social aspect had a huge impact on my position within the association. So I made compromises with my wife and kids and sacrificed some time with them...at this point in my life/career I can look back and see both the positives and negatives to those compromises...would I do it again - yes. Because those sacrifices (which really in my case were only every other Friday evening after games) helped me get where I am...like it or not, there is a lot of "politics" in officiating, and to be successful, sometimes you have to play that game - I just like to think that I manipulated the game somewhat to my benefit.

I want to make this clear (I am not picking you Rocky, just want to make a point). It is not a prerequisite to be a good official to go out. The point I was making earlier about this, was the fact that many things can and will be discussed after the game. There are people that will be at these "social events" you will not likely see during the season or talk to during the season. There might be someone at these events that can help you either directly or indirectly with a contact or an opportunity you might not have ordinarily received. It does not mean you cannot get to the same place without this help, but when someone can put a name with a face or look you in the eye, it is much better than having a cold conversation over the phone. We could take officiating completely out of this and talk about running a business or in a sales job. Many decisions are made out of the office or out of the board room. Many decisions are made on the golf course, at a banquet or at the bar. I know I tend to make contacts with others somewhere else than on that court or in the locker room. You do not have to go out at all and still be successful. You just might not be where people are to ask you first. Or to give you contact that will send your career soaring.

I will be at an association run social on Friday. Usually there are D1 Officials, State Final Officials, multiple playoff officials and a couple of assignors of either conferences or tournaments. Anyone attending is going to benefit if they simply introduce themselves to one of these individuals.

Peace

[Kostja]

Interesting discussion. I do agree that it helps a great deal to talk about situations, calls, etc. after games. But why is it not part of your regular routine to sit down with your partners for 15 or 20 minutes after every game and talk about the key moments in the game you just worked together? I like going out and I like to hang out with other referees, but to analyse a game the perfect place would be in the lockerroom right after the game, from my point of view. At least that's what we do in Europe (and no, it is not highschool ball ;-), and yes, we use Feeble rules)

Fiasco, one more thing ... keep track of your games, write a game journal. Writing down things you want to work on in your next games, things you did well, and everything else that might be helpful. Being able to see the progress you make as you get more experienced could be a great motivation, too.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Kostja

Fiasco, one more thing ... keep track of your games, write a game journal. Writing down things you want to work on in your next games, things you did well, and everything else that might be helpful. Being able to see the progress you make as you get more experienced could be a great motivation, too.

Great advice. Thanks, Kostja.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kostja

Interesting discussion. I do agree that it helps a great deal to talk about situations, calls, etc. after games. But why is it not part of your regular routine to sit down with your partners for 15 or 20 minutes after every game and talk about the key moments in the game you just worked together?

Where did you read where someone said they did not do this? Maybe I am speaking for myself, but many games I am taking a shower and getting dressed. That usually takes more than 20 minutes based on the locker room facilities. Who said not to do this or we did not do this already?

Originally Posted by Kostja

I like going out and I like to hang out with other referees, but to analyse a game the perfect place would be in the lockerroom right after the game, from my point of view. At least that's what we do in Europe (and no, it is not highschool ball ;-), and yes, we use Feeble rules)

I do not know about you, but I do not want to spend an hour or 2 sitting in a locker room (especially HS locker rooms) talking about everything having to do with the game. In my experience much of what is discussed about officiating is not limited to the game you worked that night or anything that will not be a long drawn out conversation.

Peace

[Kostja]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Where did you read where someone said they did not do this? Maybe I am speaking for myself, but many games I am taking a shower and getting dressed. That usually takes more than 20 minutes based on the locker room facilities. Who said not to do this or we did not do this already?

You are right. Nobody said anything like this.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not know about you, but I do not want to spend an hour or 2 sitting in a locker room (especially HS locker rooms) talking about everything having to do with the game. In my experience much of what is discussed about officiating is not limited to the game you worked that night or anything that will not be a long drawn out conversation.

Peace

You are right again. When I refereed a couple of games in HS in Canada I also didn't want to stay in these locker rooms longer than necessary ... Now, let me say "Yeah, but ..." Let's assume, that not all referees are as passionate about learning the game, talking to other officials, hear war stories, and so on, as you and I, and hence don't go out with other officials after their games ... Now, in order to analyze the game together, which I think helps a lot and at least on a "professional" level should be required(!), the referees should sit down in the locker room and go over the key moments of the game ... Agreed? For those of us who can't get enough of officiating and/or who are lucky enough to have family that gives us never ending support, great, go out have a beer or two and chat the night away

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kostja

You are right again. When I refereed a couple of games in HS in Canada I also didn't want to stay in these locker rooms longer than necessary ... Now, let me say "Yeah, but ..." Let's assume, that not all referees are as passionate about learning the game, talking to other officials, hear war stories, and so on, as you and I, and hence don't go out with other officials after their games ... Now, in order to analyze the game together, which I think helps a lot and at least on a "professional" level should be required(!), the referees should sit down in the locker room and go over the key moments of the game ... Agreed? For those of us who can't get enough of officiating and/or who are lucky enough to have family that gives us never ending support, great, go out have a beer or two and chat the night away

Let us not make this too complicated for some rookies. All any of us said is that on an occasion you might want to take advantage of talking to officials in a non-threatening, non-time consuming manner. If you like spending more time with your wife or children, that is OK. The fact is when people are sitting around in these environments, they tend to talk more openly about things that got them where they are or what it might take. Or they talk about stories of days gone by that might help someone learn from a good or bad experience. Sometimes you might just learn who the good and bad officials are and whom you have to watch out working with. It does not mean not knowing these things are the kiss of death to your career. Personally I did not think this issue was that big of a deal. It was just something that has made many of us here better and in many cases we have passed up people that only cared about the check they received for the game. Just like any advice, take it or leave it.

Peace

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let us not make this too complicated for some rookies. All any of us said is that on an occasion you might want to take advantage of talking to officials in a non-threatening, non-time consuming manner. If you like spending more time with your wife or children, that is OK. The fact is when people are sitting around in these environments, they tend to talk more openly about things that got them where they are or what it might take. Or they talk about stories of days gone by that might help someone learn from a good or bad experience. Sometimes you might just learn who the good and bad officials are and whom you have to watch out working with. It does not mean not knowing these things are the kiss of death to your career. Personally I did not think this issue was that big of a deal. It was just something that has made many of us here better and in many cases we have passed up people that only cared about the check they received for the game. Just like any advice, take it or leave it.

Peace

Talk about beating a dead horse...

[tomegun]

Wow, between being out of town and other things I just looked at this thread.

1. I want to say this first. You are getting hit in the mouth hard in this thread. IMO, if you think you can be a caring official, without being a jerk at times and handling business - stay home with your wife because this ain't for you. This is competitive stuff and that is one reason why this banter goes back and forth so much.
2. I like hanging with my wife too, but she knows I love this (officiating). IMO, it is a must that the spouse be on board. She asks me how my games went as I come through the door, she will video a game if I ask her to, she will chart calls if I ask her to and she understands. I just joked with her at lunch that she hasn't seen me officiate since 2005 and she was like, "What are you talking about, I just saw you a couple of weeks ago." The guys in Vegas always talked about a wife or girlfriend lasting two seasons without incident (jokingly) because we are so addicted to this.
2. This board and going out with the guys will accelerate your game IMO. I'm in the military and I have to move occasionally. Practically all of my friends in Vegas and the DC area are basketball officials and not people in the military. Even my good friend from Phoenix started officiating after we became friends. Don't cut off an opportunity to meet good people.
3. If you think you may want to do this thing and do it right, do things the right way from the start. That includes uniforms, rules, etc.

Welcome to the world of officiating. Unless you are a natural, which there are very few, you will get out what you put in.

[Splute]

I can't imagine this avocation not affecting the wife in a very short time. I don't know many wives who aren't selfish about their husbands being out enjoying themselves (yes working can be fun) while they are stuck at home (their words not mine). I know just playing golf sets mine off. Perhaps there is a happy median between these two?

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Splute

I can't imagine this avocation not affecting the wife in a very short time. I don't know many wives who aren't selfish about their husbands being out enjoying themselves (yes working can be fun) while they are stuck at home (their words not mine). I know just playing golf sets mine off. Perhaps there is a happy median between these two?

Thank you for reminding me how blessed I am!

[Splute]

Heavy sigh..... LOL