Two Fouls

[Ruby]

Lead and Trail blow whistle at same time, both don't initially know each have called a foul. Both call foul on defensive team. Lets say Lead has on B1 and Trail has on B2. Before reporting they get together and discuss what they have. They ultimately decide they are simultaneous fouls so each one reports their foul. Defensive team now has 2 additional fouls. Offense got the ball outbounds where point of interuption was. Team was not in bonus. Was right decision made. What if the offensive team was in bonus situation. Would you clear lane and shoot the first foul and then put players on the lane to shoot 2nd bonus? Definition for double, multiple or simultaneous does not fit 2 players of same team fouling 2 separate players. Best result is to determine one foul called before the other and ignore but one ref felt his foul was such it would be a dead ball technical. Thoughts?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Ruby

Lead and Trail blow whistle at same time, both don't initially know each have called a foul. Both call foul on defensive team. Lets say Lead has on B1 and Trail has on B2. Before reporting they get together and discuss what they have. They ultimately decide they are simultaneous fouls so each one reports their foul. Defensive team now has 2 additional fouls. Offense got the ball outbounds where point of interuption was. Team was not in bonus. Was right decision made. What if the offensive team was in bonus situation. Would you clear lane and shoot the first foul and then put players on the lane to shoot 2nd bonus? Definition for double, multiple or simultaneous does not fit 2 players of same team fouling 2 separate players. Best result is to determine one foul called before the other and ignore but one ref felt his foul was such it would be a dead ball technical. Thoughts?

4-19-12
A false multiple foul is a situation in which there are two or more fouls by the same team and the last foul is committed before the clock is started following the first, and at least one of the attributes of a multiple foul is absent.

[wildcatter]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

4-19-12
A false multiple foul is a situation in which there are two or more fouls by the same team and the last foul is committed before the clock is started following the first, and at least one of the attributes of a multiple foul is absent.

Huh? This has nothing to do with false multiple fouls - the fouls were both called on the floor at the same time while the clock was running. Either that, or one was called, play stops, and there was more contact (but not flagrant or unsporting), another foul was seen and called (a split-second later), but only the first should be reported.

This is simply a multiple foul.

Art. 13. Multiple foul. A multiple foul occurs when two or more teammates commit personal fouls against the same opponent at approximately the same time.

The fouls were administered correctly by the book IF the foul was on the same person. In practice, it depends on the situation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by wildcatter

Huh? This has nothing to do with false multiple fouls - the fouls were both called on the floor at the same time while the clock was running. Either that, or one was called, play stops, and there was more contact (but not flagrant or unsporting), another foul was seen and called (a split-second later), but only the first should be reported.

This is simply a multiple foul.

Art. 13. Multiple foul. A multiple foul occurs when two or more teammates commit personal fouls against the same opponent at approximately the same time.

The fouls were administered correctly by the book IF the foul was on the same person. In practice, it depends on the situation.

Nope, Tony is right. This is a FALSE multiple foul. You must have missed this part of the OP.

Originally Posted by Ruby

Definition for double, multiple or simultaneous does not fit 2 players of same team fouling 2 separate players.

Now how to administer that is unclear. POI is not the correct resumption of play. The ball should be awarded OOB at the nearest spot to one of the fouls. But which foul? I don't know. I would give the benefit to the offended team and award the ball at the location which is closer to their basket. I could even see giving the offended team the choice of which location.

If it is the bonus, then it gets really messy. If the fouls are 7 and 8 or 10 and 11 of the half, it isn't that hard. One player shoots his FTs with the lane clear and then the other with the lane spaces occupied and the game continues as normal.
However, if the fouls are 6 and 7 or 9 and 10 for the half, then how does one decide which offended player shoots the bonus (or the double bonus) and which does not? It seems that the referee will have to make a decision under 2-3.

[wildcatter]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Nope, Tony is right. This is a FALSE multiple foul. You must have missed this part of the OP.

You're completely right - my fault. I need to read better (although it does help when the key words are bolded in red in 20 pt font!). Sorry BktBallRef!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by wildcatter

You're completely right - my fault. I need to read better (although it does help when the key words are bolded in red in 20 pt font!). Sorry BktBallRef!

I was just having a bit of fun with you. I hope that you took it that way.

[Ref in PA]

False multiple fouls are a concept that most coaches don't understand, let alone fans. You may end up giving another foul to the head coach in this type of a situation.

It is good that the two refs got together to discuss their two separate incidents. If possible, see if you can determine which foul could have occurred first. If you can do that, the you can drop the second foul since contact on a dead ball is to be ignored unless it is intentional or flagrant. I realize there are situations where false multiple fouls must be called, but most (this is my opinion) assignors would prefer not to see it called.

[iref4him]

This happened to me in a game three weeks ago. The other official did not see me call my foul and I saw him call his. I knew immediately knew that no coach would understand. I knew my partner did not know what to do. SO I backed off immediately and said that my whistle was just behind his by a fraction of a second. He had a foul on the shot anyway, so we went with that.

I was told to be right but not dead right. I think I was right by just going with my partner's call and not being dead right calling mine too. Also, If you don't know how to adminster it, don't call it!!!