Delayed Free Throw Violation

[CanadaRef]

NCAA rules. Can anyone tell me definitively what NCAA rule applies to this scenerio? A1 has ball for the first of two. B1 violates. The lead official correctly signals the delayed infraction. A1 then calls timeout. When the ball is returned to A1 following the time out, does the delayed infraction still apply?

[BktBallRef]

I can tell you that in NF play, the violation would still be penalized if the thrower missed the FT, after the time out. I believe that NCAA rules are the same.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I can tell you that in NF play, the violation would still be penalized if the thrower missed the FT, after the time out. I believe that NCAA rules are the same.

What NFHS rule is that?

[BktBallRef]

Any violation of 9-1 by the defense results in a replacement FT, if the attempt is not successful. A timeout by A does not change that.

[Mark Dexter]

I went into the Case Book, and found 9.1.4C, which documents this situation.

To answer the original question, my quick reading of the NCAA rulebook turns up nothing about this situation.

As another aside, in NFHS, why does team A get a new 10-second count if they are granted a timeout? Is it because it is "their" timeout perhaps?

[mick]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

As another aside, in NFHS, why does team A get a new 10-second count if they are granted a timeout? Is it because it is "their" timeout perhaps?

Mark,
You've seen teams call time out when they can't get the ball in, yo?
Same difference.
mick

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I went into the Case Book, and found 9.1.4C, which documents this situation.

To answer the original question, my quick reading of the NCAA rulebook turns up nothing about this situation.

As another aside, in NFHS, why does team A get a new 10-second count if they are granted a timeout? Is it because it is "their" timeout perhaps?

Yes, I didn't look up the CB play but knew that it existed.

While there really isn't a separate NCAA casebook, I don't see any reason that the same principle wouldn't apply.

A timeout nevers excuses a violation. However, in the BC or throw-in situations, the violation has not yet occurred.

[CanadaRef]

Thanks guys. It's just going to look really strange after the timeout when no one moves and we replace the first shot if it rims out. I guess good game management would be to make sure the coach B knows exactly how this one will go. I wonder if any coaches actually know this rule? Oops - dumb question. Most of them are too busy yelling "3 seconds"!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by CanadaRef
I guess good game management would be to make sure the coach B knows exactly how this one will go. I wonder if any coaches actually know this rule? Oops - dumb question. Most of them are too busy yelling "3 seconds"!

Well, if they knew the rules, they would know that the closed fist extended signaled that their team had committed a delayed violation.

[Camron Rust]

Furthermore, if B1 violates and A calls timeout before the FT is shot, A1 still gets the original FT upon returning from the timeout AND, if missed, the replacement.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Nov 5th, 2001 at 03:43 PM]

[Jeremy Hohn]

We have been told by all of our conference commissioners to get the first violation. No doubles.

[rockyroad]

Actually there is one double violation...if B5 stpes in early and then A2 shoots an airball, we still have a double violation at the NCAA level...the only way around that one is to claim that B5 stepping in disconcerted the shooter, in which case we only go with the violation by B5 - but good luck selling that one to B's coach...all other violations in NCAA we penalize the first one only...

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Actually there is one double violation...if B5 stpes in early and then A2 shoots an airball, we still have a double violation at the NCAA level...the only way around that one is to claim that B5 stepping in disconcerted the shooter, in which case we only go with the violation by B5 - but good luck selling that one to B's coach...all other violations in NCAA we penalize the first one only...

Right -- the NCAA change affects double LANE violations -- not (all) double FT violations.

So, if B1 and A1 are on the lane, then penalize the first.

If B1 is on the lane but A1 isn't (is a shooter or is behind the arc), then you can penalize both.

If neither B1 nor A1 is on the lane, then penalize both.

(THe above examples assume B violates first, obviously).

[Jeremy Hohn]

Again, I am guilty of not thinking of all the possible scenarios!!

[BOBBYMO]

On free throws you said that there shouldn't be any double violations unless there is an airball on the attempt. What happins if the 1st violation is a delayed violation and the 2nd is an automatic violation.(NCAA rule)

[Edited by BOBBYMO on Nov 7th, 2001 at 10:37 AM]