Correctable or not

[PP]

In the senior girls championship tournament game last night, my partner and I encountered this situation. We were in the fourth quarter and A1 got called for a personal foul. The scorer tells my partner that it is one and bonus. So therefore we administer the free throw. She (A1) shoots and misses and play goes on. While B1 is bringing up the ball and makes it to her frontcourt the timer blows the horn repeatedly. Uh! What is going on here? So B1 with the ball starts to walk. So tweet ...travelling violation. Oops! the coach goes wild. So I go to the scorer's table and ask what is going on with the buzzer? The scorer tells me that is not one and bonus but double bonus! Well, since the ball is dead at this point and it has not become alive again I decided to go back and let A1 shoot the second free and let the play continue from this point. Is this correct ?

[Mark Dexter]

This is correctable, as it is discovered during the first dead ball after the clock was properly started.

In this case, there was change in posession, so the ball would be put into play by A at the spot of the travel. (Players need to know that the horn does not stop play unless recognized by an official.)

Of course, I'm assuming you meant to say that A1 got fouled . . .

[Dan_ref]

As Mark points out this is correctable but I would add the
following. IMO by rule shoot the FT and continue the
game from there, not from POI. In practice shoot the FT &
give the ball to B at the POI. Here's why:

First, yes there was a change in possesion,
in fact there were two, giving the ball back to A. I
believe we should treat as if there were no change in
possesion, because effectively there was none. This seems
to me the intent of the rule which seems to say
go to POI only if B has possesion. Second, this double
change of possesion mess could have been avoided by the
R wiping away the travel after it was realized
there was a proper 2-10 challenge. Yes, B1 should have
known to play the whistle but this is a case where the
referee should have stepped in & done the right thing,
which IMO would have been to shoot the second FT & give the
ball back to B at the POI.

[PP]

So Dan-ref, if I give the team its free throw that it deserves, the second shot of the double bonus, this is the correctable error, right. Now the play does not continue from this point. I should have resumed play from the point at which it was interrupted... even though a travelling had occured ? So is it team A or team B that gets the possession after rule 2-10 is applied in this case ?

[BktBallRef]

I offer the following:

Ignore the travel. The official should realize that the horn was confusing to the player. Besides that, he should have stopped the game to check with the table anyway.

Now, shoot the FT and give the ball back to B at the POI.

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I offer the following:

Ignore the travel. The official should realize that the horn was confusing to the player. Besides that, he should could have stopped the game to check with the table anyway.

Now, shoot the FT and give the ball back to B at the POI.

Tony,
Although, PP followed the procedure properly per book, I think you offer a polite solution well within the "spirit and intent" of the rule philosophy.
mick

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by mick

Tony,
Although, PP followed the procedure properly per book, I think you offer a polite solution well within the "spirit and intent" of the rule philosophy.
mick

Why thank you mick! That's me, Mr. Polite!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
As Mark points out this is correctable but I would add the
following. IMO by rule shoot the FT and continue the
game from there, not from POI. In practice shoot the FT &
give the ball to B at the POI. Here's why:

First, yes there was a change in possesion,
in fact there were two, giving the ball back to A. I
believe we should treat as if there were no change in
possesion, because effectively there was none. This seems
to me the intent of the rule which seems to say
go to POI only if B has possesion. Second, this double
change of possesion mess could have been avoided by the
R wiping away the travel after it was realized
there was a proper 2-10 challenge. Yes, B1 should have
known to play the whistle but this is a case where the
referee should have stepped in & done the right thing,
which IMO would have been to shoot the second FT & give the
ball back to B at the POI.

Dan --

THe correctable error rules are designed so either team can "get screwed," depending on what happens after the error. This helps both coaches keep alert so the error can be corected before it occurs -- which is what we want.

Your desire to give the ball back to B is commendable -- but that's not what the rule says. IF you called the travel (see Tony's suggestion elsewhere in this thread), then A gets the missing throw and the ball.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Dan --

THe correctable error rules are designed so either team can "get screwed," depending on what happens after the error. This helps both coaches keep alert so the error can be corected before it occurs -- which is what we want.

Your desire to give the ball back to B is commendable -- but that's not what the rule says. IF you called the travel (see Tony's suggestion elsewhere in this thread), then A gets the missing throw and the ball.

I believe I recommended it would have been best to ignore
the travel and give the ball back to B on the POI.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by PP
So Dan-ref, if I give the team its free throw that it deserves, the second shot of the double bonus, this is the correctable error, right. Now the play does not continue from this point. I should have resumed play from the point at which it was interrupted... even though a travelling had occured ? So is it team A or team B that gets the possession after rule 2-10 is applied in this case ?

OK, I was too cute on this one, and kinda disappointed
that my "2 changes of posession equals none" argument
didn't stir the pot. By rule the proper procedure is to give the ball back to A after giving them their second FT,
as Bob says. The best thing would have been to ignore the
travel & give the ball back to B at the POI after the second
FT.

[ChuckElias]

Dumb question guys:

A1 shoots FT and misses. B1 rebounds (this is where error occurs). B1 brings ball upcourt and travels. Before ball is handed to A2 for throw-in, official recognizes error.

Where is the change of possession?

Go back, shoot the second FT and keep going from there.

Chuck

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Dumb question guys:

A1 shoots FT and misses. B1 rebounds (this is where error occurs). B1 brings ball upcourt and travels. Before ball is handed to A2 for throw-in, official recognizes error.

Where is the change of possession?

B's rebound is the change of possession. During the FT, the "possession" belonged to A. B took possession on the rebound (a change). Anything after that makes no difference.

Go back, shoot the second FT and keep going from there.

Chuck

Give A1 the merited FT, give B the A the at the point of the travel.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
B's rebound is the change of possession. During the FT, the "possession" belonged to A. B took possession on the rebound (a change).

But that change of possession took place BEFORE the official's error. In order to resume at the POI, the change of possession has to occur after the error and before the error is discovered:

2-10-6 "If an error is corrected, play shall be resumed from the point at which it was interrupted, unless [snip] there has been no change of team possession since the error was made, in which case play shall resume as after any free-throw attempt(s)."

Since this official's error was made after the change of possession, he should shoot the extra FT and let 'em play from there.

Chuck

[Camron Rust]

The error began in letting the ball remain live on the missed FT. At that instant, the error has occurred...before B has rebounded. If the correct FT was being awarded, the ball would be dead on a miss. With B subsequently rebounding the ball, there was a change of posession.

[PP]

Camron..Why would the ball be dead on the miss?