I hate Changes!
 

I talked to an AD the other night and he said since the people that set up the whole title IX crap is almost done with the college ranks they will be forcing their way into the high school ranks next year. In PA, for the most part Girls play Monday and Thursday and Boys Tuesday and Friday. Wednesday and Saturday are either. He said that part of the changes will force the girls and boys to rotate the days they play. Which means you could have a girls or boys game any day of the week. NO "set" schedule. I for one am getting sick of all this crap.

Honestly, it doesn't sound like that big of a deal to me.

What part of PA?
 

Here in District 3 girls have always played the same as the boys Tues/Fri. For the most part Boys JV/V at home Girls JV/V away versus the same school.

Why is this a problem in your mind? Where I live it is very common for different nights to be for different levels and genders. This has been the case since I was in HS and I am not sure if Title IX had anything to do with it.

Peace

We do it the same here in our section. The only difference is the conferences change what nights they play,I think, on a yearly basis. The advantage is you can see good hoops,girls or boys, 5/6 nights a week.....

Around here they flip-flop the schedules and have for a number of years...first half of season, Girls play Tuesday/Friday and boys on Monday/Thursday...second half of season they switch...it's random from year to year who starts the season with the "prime" Friday night slots...really isn't a problem.

which crap are you referring to? If it's the schedule change thing, I sympathize. But if what you're really sick of is making allowances for other human beings to have a better schedule than they had before, even though it messes with your little program, well, don't get me started...

We go with all high school ball on Tu/Fri, and MS ball on M/Th.

High school is generally both JV games at 5:00 in different gyms, with V G/B after that, sometimes with additional sub-varsity/freshman games in the 2nd gym after the first JV game.

Not needed
 

The major problem that I see is I don't like un-needed changes. The teams schools around here like the routine of games. The only reason that they are changing it is because of Title IX. Why should Tilte IX care which day girls or boys play. I just seeing it as un-needed. I also think it will be more difficult for assignors to cover the games. Our chapter is all ready low on officials. Thats my beef!

and if a high school AD said it, it must be true!!

Could be worse. Around here you have to work girl/boy double headers most nights. In addition, we have separate athletic unions so we have to join both. Pay dues for both, take different tests for both. It kind of sucks, but that's the way it goes.

I think the the legal eagles may have been in places already. We've always done it with girl/boy doubleheaders mainly on Tuesdays and Fridays. For some reason they changed about 4 years ago so that the boys would play first followed by the girls. It backfired and they have been back to girls first ever since. Fortunately I think the girls games are getting more popular as time goes on as the players are getting better and better what with all the youth leagues and tournaments they can play in. I'm at the school of the defending 5A girls champions tonight. They pull in pretty good crowds. These were a group of girls that grew up playing in tournaments and games as kids all over and it paid off for them. And the crowds follow.

I really don't see the big deal. Even though the scheduling may switch around the total number of games is still the same, so I don't see how it could have a significant effect on availability of officials.

It doesn't matter to me whether I work boys or girls games. Overall I work a fairly evenly split mix, but it varies from week to week. For example, this week I have 5 boys & 1 girls game on my schedule, but next week I have 4 girls and 2 boys games. Our association covers both boys & girls games at all levels for our area. We have 300+ members and cover over 7000 games each season - all handled by one assignor.

What I think you will see is more specialization of refs. Certain refs will be boys refs and others will be girls refs. In my area we have two different assignors for boys and another for girls (and another for JV and below, another for rec league, another for christian schools and yet another for catholic schools - talk about confusion!).

Well, if Title IX really gets steamrolling, will that be allowed? If it's already dictating (at least to some degree) schedules and facilities, will there come a time when they begin to mandate that the girls must have the same officials too?

Observations
 

I work in a pretty big Assoc. We have 120 HS and about 300 refs. I always stay and watch the V game after my Frosh/JV doubleheader.

Two nights ago, middle of the pack boys game. The V refs consist of a very experienced,in shape top dog and a young, slick,good looking up and coming stud. Did a great job in a tight contest. They looked great.

Last night middle of the pack GV game. Both teams battling for a playoff spot. Both V refs were at least 40 lbs overweight. One when trail barely took 2 steps past the division line. Neither moved very well. Appearance wise they looked just horrible.

All 4 teams play summer ball.All 4 teams ,I assume practice the hour / hour and a half a day. The girls seemed to want to win as bad as the boys teams. They all put in the same time and effort.

This is a pattern I see all season long. Would the world as we know it end if the girls , once in a while, got thrown a bone and had refs that weren't candidates for stomach stapling surgery ?

What kind of job did the tubbies above do? You didn't say. We've got some guys in my association that are overweight too. That doesn't equate to being a bad official though imo. Some of 'em can plain flat out referee. I've also got some slick, good looking studs that scare t'hell outa me some times too.

They don't dictate that in the college game. It's a matter of fact that men's officials work men's games only and women's officials work women's games only.

(I really don't want to hear from you if you work a full schedule on both sides. If you do you are the rare exception.)

Around here (as in a lot of areas), the boys game always follows the girls game during double headers. I'd have bet there would be a push to get this changed more so than bothering with which night the teams played.

In our area, each assignment is a double header. The only exceptions are if a school does not field a team in that particular category. VG-VB play at one game site while JVG-JVB play at the other site. It has been like this for many years. Some conferences (usually smaller schools) play all four games at one site and one night. On these nights, the JV games cut quarters down to 7, sometimes 6 minutes per. No reduction in pay. Good night to call JV games.

The tubbies were okay. I probably shouldn't have used weight as the main point of my point. Or something.....I'm confusing myself. What I mean is the girls around here get the average refs. The only time I see top dog refs on a girls game is if it is a high profile game or at sectional playoffs. I would like to see more of the top dogs ref some of the girls games. Once in a while.....

I believe that Title IX serves a purpose. Thats all I'm trying to say , I think....

Must say something about your abilities then if you're watching THEM work a V game.

Are you trying to be as offensive as possible in your post?

Many local guys choose not to work girls games. My schedule is about 85% boys and if it were 50/50, I wouldn't be happy. You can't force guys to do something they don't want to.

I think we are overreacting a little bit here. You cannot make people who are independent contractors make them work games they do not want to work. If you do that, there will be a backlash on some level from the officiating community. I feel confident that this will never happen.

Peace

How else should I present this ?
 

No i wasn't trying to be offensive. I was just trying to present what I saw. I guess I could have said I saw a girls basketball game where the 2 refs had a genetic predisposition to being 50 lbs overweight which lead them to having a physical impairment to getting no more than 3-5 feet past the division line all evening when they were the trail official. But due to their eyes receiving a assist from these glass things that wrapped around their ears they were able to get great angles from over by the scorers table.

Someone wrote on this board once that officiating isn't rocket science it's a specific set of skills. I am well on my way to acquiring these skills. Truthfully, I would personally be embarrassed to show up to officiate looking like they looked the other night. My point was and still is you just don't see ,very often, officials looking like this on the boys side of things.

In our Association you start getting Varsity games no sooner than 5 years . I have 3 years so no Varsity for about 2 more years irregardless of how crappy or great an official I am.

In our area we have 1 assignor for 120 HS. They assignor uses the Assoc. to find refs. My observation is that only the top 10 % or so get to chose what side they work on, 35 refs or so. The rest of us take what the computer spits out or get handpicked for other reasons.

In VA, we have at least in my region

Mon: some games could be either boy/girls
Tues: FR/JV/VA, girls/boys either home or away
Weds: some not much
Thurs: Fr/JV girls or boys home or away
Fri: Vars double header
SAt: not every week but some Boys /girls Var double header

And my point was and still is that how an official looks does not equate in any way to the way that an official does his job. I have seen some absolutely great NCAA officials who like a <b>Before</b> ad. I have seen statuesque pretty-boys who just aren't very good at all, and disappear when the negative evaluations start coming in. I know some very slow officials who still know how to get into good position and also how to maintain that good position. I know some fast officials who are out of position more often than they're in position.

Iow, you can't judge officials on appearance imo.

Lucky Girls
 

No doubt. I realize that there are numerous things that go into being a good official. I realize that there are good officials who look like the before ad. I also realize there are pretty boys who are not so good officials.

Maybe I missed the boat on this one. Maybe our area is the one that sends the best officials to the girls side and make the boys play with the pretty boys. In our area none of the before ad officials are doing college, but the pretty boys seem to be.. I'm just thinking in our area the girls are really lucky then. The girls seem to be getting all the before ad officials, until the playoffs, and the assignor is sending the crappy pretty boys to the boys games.

Seriously, putting the whole weight thing aside. Boys get better refs than the girls. I see it in action. For whatever reason thats the way it is. And i don't like it nor do I think it's right.

Here's a politically incorrect take on it:

It takes a better official to work HS boys varsity than it does girls.....in every state I've lived. The ball is faster, the players are more athletic, and you have to employ advantage/disadvantage with a far keener eye in boys games. When I work girls games, I get many more coaches who want every bit of contact called as a foul and typically coach behavior is unpredictable and more likely to result in me having to take care of business than when I work boys games.

If someone more politically correct wishes to put a better spin on it, go right ahead. But officials shouldn't feel forced to work girls ball just cause they want and like working boys ball.

This is the reason I stopped doing Girl's games. I would literally see a girl player just standing still and the ball handler would run into them and fall to the floor and they automatically want a foul. Then when you would say to them in a calm voice about the defender was in LGP and that would do nothing but set them off and before you know it the game goes to hell in a hand basket.

The very same thing would happen on the boy's side and the coaches would be yelling at their player for making such a stupid play. Then if you called a foul just because of some contact, Boy's coaches tend complain about letting them play.

All I can say is this past week I watched most of the game on ESPN HS game between Loyola Academy (IL) and North Central HS (IN) and you cannot tell me that an officials that is used working a lot of girls game can handle that game without some major adjustment.


I agree, this should be a personal choice.

Peace

Almost as reliable as the internet . . .:rolleyes:

Care to explain that?

Agreed.

I ref boys games because I love the intensity and challenge of it.

I ref girls games because they need good officials too. I have several friends who have daughters and they appreciate it.

I ref boys games differently than girls games. It isn't that hard to do.

The adjustment is not any more difficult than the adjustment needed between a high-level talented boys game and a lower-level boys game with mediocre players.

Not so much
 

Well I live in the land of political correctness and well I never consider the truth to be politically incorrect. Between your post and Jrut's post a light bulb came on for me. People shouldn't be forced to work games they don't want to and it's all good. For myself I hope to someday be able to be like the zebraman and ref girls because they deserve good officials too. Not ref them because that is all I am qualified to do......