Liability Issue @ Ortonville

[Johnny Ringo]

Originally Posted by GreeneFam

No I know this for a fact, one official was a substitute teacher, the other was student, still dressed in her JV volleyball practice uniform. The teacher MAY have been registered, but I find that a stretch. And after emailing the principal he acknowledge that there were no registered officials present.

Are you serious? This has to be a made-up story. A female student who was a JV volleyball player? I know the mindset of girls JV volleyballers or girls at the JV level in any sport. I have a dughter in high school and sisters who were much younger than me and to think that they may come out of wherever to officiate a boys frosh game is hilarious ... not to mention, very unlikely. How bad was this game to watch. even if it was a JV boys basketball player - seriously doubt this happened.

No mention of how they officiated the game. Not going to say anyhting about the sub teacher, but the JV Volleyball player may have used the travel signal for subs and can't imaine what the whistle analysis sheet may have looked liked? This is a hoax! A guy just decided to think out loud on this site.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Are you serious? This has to be a made-up story. A female student who was a JV volleyball player? I know the mindset of girls JV volleyballers or girls at the JV level in any sport. I have a dughter in high school and sisters who were much younger than me and to think that they may come out of wherever to officiate a boys frosh game is hilarious ... not to mention, very unlikely. How bad was this game to watch. even if it was a JV boys basketball player - seriously doubt this happened.

No mention of how they officiated the game. Not going to say anyhting about the sub teacher, but the JV Volleyball player may have used the travel signal for subs and can't imaine what the whistle analysis sheet may have looked liked? This is a hoax! A guy just decided to think out loud on this site.

I'm not entirely sure, Johnny. A junior could be a JV player, and there are probably quite a few juniors (boys or girls) in hs who've done enough reffing that they could manage, if not handle well, a boys' frosh game. You may know a lot of JV girl athletes but you sure don't know them all. I'll be there are at least a few out there who'd be willing to do this.

Someone asked how the refs did. I'm also interested to note that the OP has at no point criticized the flow of the game, or any calls or mechanics. Maybe she did a decent job.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Are you serious? This has to be a made-up story. A female student who was a JV volleyball player? I know the mindset of girls JV volleyballers or girls at the JV level in any sport. I have a dughter in high school and sisters who were much younger than me and to think that they may come out of wherever to officiate a boys frosh game is hilarious ... not to mention, very unlikely. How bad was this game to watch. even if it was a JV boys basketball player - seriously doubt this happened.

No mention of how they officiated the game. Not going to say anyhting about the sub teacher, but the JV Volleyball player may have used the travel signal for subs and can't imaine what the whistle analysis sheet may have looked liked? This is a hoax! A guy just decided to think out loud on this site.

We've got kids of that age in our training program, including several young ladies of approximately that age also. We use them in AAU/rec type games to get experience. They're usually keen as hell and are like sponges when it comes to learning. I'd sureashell rather see them out on the court in a situation like this than some parent plucked from the stands just to make sure the game gets played.

Jmo, but I really don't think that it's fair to speculate on how good/bad the kid might have been without actually seeing the game either. That's fanboy thinking, not official's thinking. The kid might have done a good job.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I'm not entirely sure, Johnny. A junior could be a JV player, and there are probably quite a few juniors (boys or girls) in hs who've done enough reffing that they could manage, if not handle well, a boys' frosh game. You may know a lot of JV girl athletes but you sure don't know them all. I'll be there are at least a few out there who'd be willing to do this.

It's also possible that this student played girls basketball during the fall. She would be somewhat familiar with the game.

To the OP: Yes, it would be better if "registered" officials did the game. But, given that officials weren't at the site, the choice becomes cancelling / postponing the game, or playing with other officials. Neither is a good choice.

If MI has some specific rules about what to do, you'll find them from the MI High School Atletic Association (or similar name). AFAIK, no one here is intimately familiar with the MI "administrative" rules and regulations.

As long as the teams keep playing "basketball", then I don't see any additional injury / safety issues from not having registered officials. Maybe the AD thought that s/he could control any extracurricular activites, or step in if the game became "too rough" as a result of the officiating.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

As long as the teams keep playing "basketball", then I don't see any additional injury / safety issues from not having registered officials. Maybe the AD thought that s/he could control any extracurricular activites, or step in if the game became "too rough" as a result of the officiating.

In any event I'm still wondering why this concerned parent let his kid play if he thought it was dangerous.

I suspect he aint coming back so we'll never know.

[bgtg19]

Originally Posted by GreeneFam

The fact that they are females had nothing to do with anything. I did re-read my OP and agree that I used that term a lot, but I would have been just as upset if a MALE student had refereed the game. The gender was not the issue. I am sorry you are taking such offense at the adjective FEMALE.

I can only assumed I used the term FEMALE to better describe who had been chosen to officiate. If it was a middle aged white balding man, I would have said middle aged white balding man.

I agree that we should be gracious to our guests. I also agree that it is O.K. to call our guests on their evident biases. The repeated references to female officials also drew my attention.

I agree with the OP in acknowledging his assumption that the term "female" was used "to better describe who had been chosen to officiate." That assumption, however, has the evil (is that too strong a word? naw...) connotation of being less able or less qualified. That's the way it was used, anyway, and I think it's helpful for Garth to have pointed that out.

After the professed assumption, our guest didst protesteth too much. He said: "If it was a middle aged white balding man, I would have said middle aged white balding man." Actually, no he wouldn't. As another has observed, our guest did not describe the age, race or hair status of any of the men in the scenario. And, if that's how he would have described the man, why don't we know the age of the faculty member and/or the race or hair quality of either officials?

These are small points, yes, but this is not "political correctness." This is calling a bias and bias and the collective effort of all of us to root out biases (our own, as well as others') will strengthen our society. IMHO.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by mick

If you are interested enough to hang around and want to know about rules from unbiased parties, there be some plenty smart folks here.
mick

Don't let Mick fool you...he's one of them!

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by fonzzy07

I am a senior in highschool, registered and from what I am told I am becoming a good official. Maybe she is registered, and the school knew that so when they needed someone last minuite they asked her and since she did not know she did not bring her gear with her.

Could be. But if you re-read the thread you'll see where Greene posted the admins stated neither were registered.

[Johnny Ringo]

I still tink it is a hoax. A quick look at the schools website shows that there was a boys basketball game on the road at Lapeer East and the OP said that tickets to Frosh games were $5 - well, on the website it reads:

Brandon High School Ticket Prices

Varsity Football $5.00
JV & Freshman Football $5.00
Varsity & JV Boys’/Girls’ Basketball $5.00
Freshman Boys’/Girls’ Basketball $3.00
Varsity Hockey $5.00
Wrestling $5.00
Varsity, JV, Freshman Volleyball $5.00
Varsity & JV Boys’/Girls’ Soccer $5.00
Spring Sports (if charged) $5.00

There's a list some nontruth going on here.

[GreeneFam]

Just for the record, I am a woman, LOL. Not that it should make a difference as Garth pointed out, but I keep being referred to as "HE."

No, I did not pull my son out of the game as a PP asked. Maybe I should have, looking back now... I am just grateful nothing bad happened.

Thanks again to the few posters who have pointed out that I was indeed correct to be concerned since "Michigan requires all officials to be registered to officiate any high school basketball games."

Someone also asked what our coach thought about the situation, obviously we didn't talk to him directly about it until later, and he said he was pretty surprised that they chose to use unregistered officials. He also said that several days later the school's Varsity Coach called him personally to apologize saying he couldn't believe it when he heard what had happened and assured him that it was not indicative of how their program is usually run....

And again, I know they were uninsured, unregistered officials because we asked the school's principal and athletic director about it and they admitted it. I assure you this is not a hoax! I am LOL'ing at "Johnny Ringo" who is as dumfounded as we were. There were a few girls (sorry Garth, but they were GIRLS) sitting together in the corner of the gym, and the athletic director went over and asked one to ref. I dont know if maybe she was more familiar with basketball then the rest of the students in the gym, or if simply he needed a "body" to fill in, but she was there.

Please refer to our schedule (Rochester) on our school's website to see that the game on the date in question DID happen. I think the JV and Varsity teams might have been playing at Lapeer that night, but Freshman were not. I might have been mistaken on the price of admission --- was it $3?? Maybe ... but the fact is, we did paid to get in, we did play a game at that gym, the official were female, and they were NOT registered.
http://www.rochester.k12.mi.us/index...1950&name=Boys Basketball

Thanks again for all your comments...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GreeneFam

Just for the record, I am a woman, LOL. Not that it should make a difference as Garth pointed out, but I keep being referred to as "HE."

For the record, you being a woman does not preclude you from having a problem with a woman in an authority situation. It is often the very people that have a problem with women in authority are often other women. It is not like women are not raised in similar environments as men and share many of the same sexist views as men.

I have no idea if that is an issue with you, but I did think you focused a lot on the fact that you had female officials. Why that was I have no idea.

Peace

[Johnny Ringo]

Well, dumbfounded indeed. In my 18 years I have never seen a female sub teacher come out of the stands and a JV volleyball player grab a whistle. Not saying it can't happen, but to quote a line from the 1993 movie Tombstone:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Texas Jack: You ever seen somethin' like that before?
Turkey Creek Jack Johnson: Hell, I never even heard of something like that.

[GreeneFam]

LMAO!! That's why it was such a bizarre situation! We were just looking at each other like, "Is this happening?" I dont know... maybe it was because it was "just" a 9th grade game. Whatever... I am over it now. I stumbled across this message board while searching the Michigan High School Athletic Association websites regarding officiating rules, and thought I'd post to see what you all thought.

And I just have to laugh at the notion that you are all assuming I have problems with women in authority. I AM a woman in authority! I could care less if the refs were women or men. (We have several women refs in our league.) Again, it was the unregistered, uninsured, under-aged part that struck a cord with me.

Thanks everyone.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GreeneFam

And I just have to laugh at the notion that you are all assuming I have problems with women in authority. I AM a woman in authority! I could care less if the refs were women or men. (We have several women refs in our league.) Again, it was the unregistered, uninsured, under-aged part that struck a cord with me.

Thanks everyone.

Once again, there are some that would say that women tend to have more problems with other women than they do with men. Just because you are in an authority position does not take away that you "could" have such an issue. Just by the fact that you seemed to question her qualifications says something to me.

Peace

[GreeneFam]

Ok, LOL. We'll just agree to disagree then!