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-   -   2 strange questions... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/31358-2-strange-questions.html)

HawkeyeCubP Wed Jan 31, 2007 05:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
ok you don't "ask" you "inform". same thing, do you follow him around and make sure he does it and make a mountain out of it before the game starts or do you not bother until game time? i guess all i am saying is i would ask him/tell him/whatever to do it and if he comes out to start the game he can go back to the bench if the jewelry is still on. anybody who wants to do the former is more than welcome, i am not saying i am right, but that is how i would handle it..i think if you try the babysitting approach you are setting yourself up for a loong night...i'd like to think that all kids would listen the first time, but we all know that's not reality...

i am still not convinced with the ipod thing given the verbiage in the book...."not deemed appropriate for basketball" is so open to interpretation...why not specifically ban personal music devices, that would end the question...
I understand what you're saying, but it's no different that informing a player or coach they are required by rule to do something during any other time we're on the court - which we have course to do about 5 to 50 times per game.

And I'd bet if you brought this up to your association board and/or state interpreter, the concensus would be that it falls under 3.5.B & C.

blindmanwalking Wed Jan 31, 2007 05:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP
You don't ask. You inform player that said items/equipment must be removed before player continues his/her on-court warm-ups.
Agreed. And if said player still refuses, tell head coach his player is about to cost his team a T if he doesn't comply. This should take care of it.

kbilla Wed Jan 31, 2007 05:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP
I understand what you're saying, but it's no different that informing a player or coach they are required by rule to do something during any other time we're on the court - which we have course to do about 5 to 50 times per game.

Only difference being that during the game, the timing of compliance is of more importance....I can't argue that you are 100% correct with this per the letter of the rule, to me it's just an area where I personally would back off a little if it came up, I wouldn't go looking for trouble..that being said I would support you as my partner 100% if you wanted to walk the kid off the court until he complied......

And I'd bet if you brought this up to your association board and/or state interpreter, the concensus would be that it falls under 3.5.B & C.
I'm sure you are probably right...all I was trying to get across in response to the original post is that this item is not specifically addressed...I would agree with you if someone was asking my opinion, but I would rather see something like this addressed rather than leaving it open to interpretation...because you know what you get then "the last ref let me wear it!" Granted you might get that anyway even if it was the written rule, but still!

kbilla Wed Jan 31, 2007 05:42pm
Sorry HCP got my response caught up in your post!

blindmanwalking Wed Jan 31, 2007 05:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
I'm sure you are probably right...all I was trying to get across in response to the original post is that this item is not specifically addressed...I would agree with you if someone was asking my opinion, but I would rather see something like this addressed rather than leaving it open to interpretation...because you know what you get then "the last ref let me wear it!" Granted you might get that anyway even if it was the written rule, but still!
Every cuss word is not specifically addressed not are every phrase that could be considered taunting or baiting. Use common sense. An Ipod presents many more potential problems than an item of jewelry.

Jurassic Referee Wed Jan 31, 2007 07:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
I'm sure you are probably right...all I was trying to get across in response to the original post is that this item is not specifically addressed...I would agree with you if someone was asking my opinion, but I would rather see something like this addressed rather than leaving it open to interpretation...because you know what you get then "the last ref let me wear it!" Granted you might get that anyway even if it was the written rule, but still!
Kbilla, read case play 3.5SitA. It <b>deliberately</b> says <i>"It will be noted that the listing of equipment which is always illegal is not inclusive. It cannot identify every item which is not permitted. The generalization is required since the referee's judgement is necessary."</i> There isn't anything in the rules about carrying an AK47 onto the court during warmups either. That's why they give you the criteria to follow in that case play-i.e.some of the criteria that I listed already.

Jurassic Referee Wed Jan 31, 2007 07:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
...earrings sure you would see them, but again if you ask him to take it off and he doesn't do it right away what are you going to do? are you going to stay on him and follow him until he does or are you going to just watch to make sure that he does before the game starts? personally i would do the latter.....
Personally, I think that you should learn the rules and how to apply them. It's kinda obvious that you don't know what the applicable rules are or how they should be applied.

The FED has laid out in detail <b>exactly</b> how they want these situations handled. There is <b>NO</b> guesswork or judgement involved. You do <b>NOT</b> ask</b> a player to take off jewelry. You <b>tell</b> them that they <b>have</b> to leave the court <b>immediately</b> until they <b>do</b> take off the jewelry. If they choose to wear jewelry, that is their right. But they have to do so on the bench, not on the court. If the player wants to argue or doesn't want to leave, that's when you can get into technical fouls if needed. Usually a word to the coach is all that it takes. I have never seen or heard of a player refusing to leave the court when asked to get rid of his jewelry.

deecee Wed Jan 31, 2007 07:21pm
actually if i see an Ak47 make its way on the court I am NOT informing anyone -- I am getting my butt out of there -- would you give the coach a T here?

Mountaineer Wed Jan 31, 2007 08:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee
we cannot make anything come out during warmups -- we make suggestions and hope they comply -- they are NOT allowed to play with earrings -- there is nothing that prohibts them during warmups.
Sure we can. Rule 3.5.6: Jewelry shall not be worn.

It then goes on to discuss why medical tags are not jewelry. It also says in 3.5 that The referee shall not permit any team member to wear equipment or apparel which, in his/her judgement is dangerous or confusing to other players or is not appropriate.

It says nothing about during the game or warm-up. I promise you that in warm-ups I make them take jewelry off, rubber bands off, any hard hair clips out, fix any braces that have a problem, etc. If they have an Ipod with them - that's leaving too. In my judgement - those items present a dangerous situation to team mates and the Ipod is innappriate.

Mountaineer Wed Jan 31, 2007 08:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee
actually if i see an Ak47 make its way on the court I am NOT informing anyone -- I am getting my butt out of there -- would you give the coach a T here?
I guess I would give a T - unless it's OJ Mayo.:D

Nevadaref Wed Jan 31, 2007 08:33pm
I also had a BV player attempt to wear an ipod and a stocking cap during warmups earlier this season. I simply stopped him in the layup line and told him that he needed to go to the bench and remove those items right away.
There was no fuss at all. He simply did as necessary.
He was a nice kid and the team captain. He simply didn't know that he couldn't have that stuff on during warmups.

For rules support see the previous posts by JR and RD. :D

26 Year Gap Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee
how is the ipod a danger to others -- hes shooting layups and midrange jumpers.
Let's suppose he gets clocked in the head with a ball because he could not hear his teammate yell "Look out!"and his parents decide to sue you because you saw it and did not have it removed. Strange, I know, but look at the warning labels on hair dryers. Think someone using one in the tub won't sue if they survive?

Mountaineer Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee
how is the ipod a danger to others -- hes shooting layups and midrange jumpers.
Yep, and they also do defensive drills and drills where there can be close contact - certainly could be dangerous. If all they are doing is shooting layups and midrange jumpers - I question the coach having an effective warmup for his team.

deecee Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
Let's suppose he gets clocked in the head with a ball because he could not hear his teammate yell "Look out!"and his parents decide to sue you because you saw it and did not have it removed. Strange, I know, but look at the warning labels on hair dryers. Think someone using one in the tub won't sue if they survive?
wheres nevada and his 3rd world play book...

i had a team who had a very large rooster as one of its players -- it was number 10 and quick as heck on the crossover...one problem it got 2 quick T's for excessive clucking...what would you do in this situation?

Ignats75 Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:56am
Quote:
actually if i see an Ak47 make its way on the court I am NOT informing anyone -- I am getting my butt out of there
This is too easy...I'd give him the http://www.geocities.com/mnlerner200...sign_trans.gif:D :D :D :p


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