T after "end" of game...inconsistency in the rules?

Lotto · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 30, 2001, 04:16pm

I was just looking in the rule book (NCAA) and noticed the following:

Rule 5, Section 7:
Art. 4. When a direct or indirect technical foul occurs after the ball has become dead to end a period, the next period shall be started by administering the free throw(s) and play shall resume at the point of interruption. This shall apply when the foul occurs after the first half has ended or after the second half or any extra period has ended, provided there is to be an (other) extra period.
a . When there is no way to determine whether there will be an extra period until the free throw(s) for a technical foul are administered, the free throw(s) shall be attempted immediately, as if the technical foul had been part of the preceding period.

My question is, exactly what does "no way to determine" mean? Suppose we have a 2 shot technical after the end of the second half. It's clear that we shoot the technicals now if the shooting team is down 1 or 2 points. Do we shoot now or at the beginning of the overtime if the game is tied? If the shooting team is down by one point and makes both shots, is the game over?

Could someone clarify this for me?

Richard Ogg · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 30, 2001, 04:35pm

I can't speak for the NCAA, but I wouldn't expect it to be different.

The point is that if a period has ended and there will be a next period, then any T during the intermission (even if only 1 minute long) is part of the next period. The break belongs to the following period.

However, if there is not another period planned (i.e., game is over if nothing happens), then any such action is considered part of the previous period. So, A=56 B=57 after 4th and coach B reveals his/her true feelings: T and, since there is no planned additional period, team A shoots 2 shots as part of 4th period. If both are made, you expect the final to be A=58 B=57. If only 1 shot is made, then the score is A=57 B=57 and you will play an overtime period, initiated with a jump at center court. (The T and its associate activity belong to the 4th period because you did not expect to play another period.)

Hope that helps.

Now here's my twist and question: In above scenario only 1 shot was made, so the score is A=57 B=57. As we get ready for the overtime period another T is assessed. (Oh my!) Are we still in the 4th period? or once we determined that an overtime period would be played, are we now in it. IOW, will the overtime now start with 2 freethrows instead of the jump? (I wish I didn't think of these complications.)

Tim Roden · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 30, 2001, 04:39pm

Richard, I would think that we would start overtime with technicals.

stripes · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 30, 2001, 05:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard Ogg
Now here's my twist and question: In above scenario only 1 shot was made, so the score is A=57 B=57. As we get ready for the overtime period another T is assessed. (Oh my!) Are we still in the 4th period? or once we determined that an overtime period would be played, are we now in it. IOW, will the overtime now start with 2 freethrows instead of the jump? (I wish I didn't think of these complications.)

Actually, this is the best time to think about complications. Learn it now and apply it on the court.

Once we have determined that there will be an OT period played, it is played. Even if there is another technical after the FT shots are made. The OT period is started with 2 FT and the ball OOB to the offended team.

Lotto · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 30, 2001, 08:22pm

OK, here's what seems weird to me. If A=56, B=57 and there is a technical after the second half ends, then A has a chance to win the game right there and then with the free throws. If A=57, B=57, then A doesn't get that chance to win the game even though A has scored more points than in the first case. Somehow that seems unfair, that the "worse" performance can lead to a victory while the "better" performance leads to an OT.

Brad · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 01, 2001, 03:44pm

My question is, exactly what does "no way to determine" mean?

Basically it means that without shooting the technicals you wouldn't have overtime, but by shooting them you might have overtime (depending if they are made or not) so there is "no way to determine" without administering the free throws.

Suppose we have a 2 shot technical after the end of the second half. It's clear that we shoot the technicals now if the shooting team is down 1 or 2 points.

Right.

Do we shoot now or at the beginning of the overtime if the game is tied?

The beginning of overtime. You can "determine" that there will be an overtime, as the score is tied -- you do not need to shoot the technicals in order to determine if there will be an overtime period.

If the shooting team is down by one point and makes both shots, is the game over?

Yep.