SEC may discipline referee - Ala.-Ga. game

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by biz

We're talking about a guy, Tom Lopes, who has been one of the best in the business for many years. He's worked multiple Final Fours and is one of that small, elite group who you tend to see working the big games. His record speaks for itself.

That being said...If he screwed by misapplying a rule that is a major no no and I would have no problem with a simple statement from the SEC saying that he misapplied rule x.x.x and he and his crew will receive a (x) game suspension. But in seems in this case we're talking about judgement calls that need to be made at a split second. Obviously if an official misses too many of these type calls he/she will lose assignments to officials who can make the calls, but these mistakes should not be publicized.

I'm no expert on the NCAA rules either, but I have been looking at the monitor guidelines quite a bit recently. It may be that Lopes did, in fact, get a rule wrong, not just a judgment call. It seems that in the situation described it was incorrect to consult the monitor since the game clock was not showing 0.00, but rather still had 17 seconds on it.

Here is the NCAA rule that I am basing my statement upon:
2-5-2b

"Ascertain, with the reading of 0.00 on the game clock, whether a
shot-clock violation occurred at or near the expiration of time in any
period;"

[sj]

On another matter I'm having trouble getting my little mind around the idea that an official of his caliber, or just about any official for that matter, can make 23 bad calls in one game. The coach is bound to lose credibility when about 21 or probably 22 of these alleged bad calls were actually correct.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by swkansasref33

you let the whole nation know he screwed up, then EVERY game, and i mean EVERY game, coaches and players are going to question his calls, and be continually on his @$$ because of it. It would essentially be forcing this guy to quit officiating.

While it may be true that coaches may be more willing to question his calls, a missed shot clock call is not going to force Mr. Lopes to quit officiating. JMO.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by swkansasref33

He!! yea it is... anything like that should be in-house, and nobody, and i mean NOBODY should know about it other than the reprimanded official and the person/board deciding his punishment. It goes back to the thread where we were talking about throwing fellow officials underneath the bus. You don't do it, no matter what. If you do, and you let the whole nation know he screwed up, then EVERY game, and i mean EVERY game, coaches and players are going to question his calls, and be continually on his @$$ because of it. It would essentially be forcing this guy to quit officiating.

We are not talking about high school basketball, there is a lot of money involved and as far as I know there is no such thing as a board to decide this.
It is sort of naive to think this will ruin someone's career. It just doesn't happen that way so you should let that one go.

[voiceoflg]

Originally Posted by swkansasref33

He!! yea it is... anything like that should be in-house, and nobody, and i mean NOBODY should know about it other than the reprimanded official and the person/board deciding his punishment. It goes back to the thread where we were talking about throwing fellow officials underneath the bus. You don't do it, no matter what. If you do, and you let the whole nation know he screwed up, then EVERY game, and i mean EVERY game, coaches and players are going to question his calls, and be continually on his @$$ because of it. It would essentially be forcing this guy to quit officiating.

It doesn't matter if the media knows and tells the punishment or not. Coaches are going to scrutinize Mr. Lopes more closely anyway. IMO, an official should be suspended for making a mistake that costs a game only when a coach is suspended for making a mistake that costs a game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Let me ask a difficult question.

In front of you is the media - Sportscenter, the internet, etc.
To the left of you is college conferences where the coaches make big money and their jobs depend on winning games.
To the right of you is a part time official who makes between 1-2 thousand a game and is an independant contractor.
Behind you is your family that depends on you to bring home the bacon.

So they guy/gal on your right makes a mistake, which they should not make, and the people in front of you advertise it. The guy/gal on your left is talking directly to your boss because they just got hosed and their job could be in jeopardy. You have your family behind you who depends on you to keep the electricity on. When the hammer falls, which it must because the guy/gal on the right is obviously wrong, do you tell the people in front of you and the guy/gal on the left of you? Or do you say it will be kept in house, but the guys in front of you show highlights of the guy on the right of you officiating games like nothing has happened and the guy/gal on the left of you sees it to? You must also keep in mind, this is a million (at least) dollar business.

I think it is a slippery slope and obviously many D1 conferences (in multiple sports), the NFL and the NBA do not mind coming out and saying what the punishment will be. When a coach gets fired, when a player gets a technical in a game or when a university scandal occurs, it is all right there in the open. Is it so wrong to be open about the punishment handed down to an official?

Just playing devil's advocate.

You make an excellent point. What's wrong with being held accountable and others (the public) knowing that?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You make an excellent point. What's wrong with being held accountable and others (the public) knowing that?

In some ways that's frightening new territory. Would it become a slippery slope going from simple public disclosure of previously private discipline to where eventually an official could be publicly sanctioned by more than just his supervisor? Once publicly disclosed discipline, so-called transparency or accountability becomes the norm, more people are going to want in on the act. Will lust for this new form of public execution grow? Will every sports broadcast include whiney-assed, grossly uninformed color commentators calling for discipline of officials for perceived mistakes? When such public pressure inevitably appears, how long until conferences begin to bow to such pressure?

Basketball referees are not elected officials, they are not executives of publicly traded companies. They are simply contractors doing a job. Yes, that job is very visible and connected with very emotionally charged events that have become inextricably tied to a boatload of money. But I see nothing that makes me believe that how a conference deals with officials should be made public. It is little more than bloodlust on the part of coaches, schools, media outlets, and fans that is driving this.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Let me ask a difficult question.

In front of you is the media - Sportscenter, the internet, etc.
To the left of you is college conferences where the coaches make big money and their jobs depend on winning games.
To the right of you is a part time official who makes between 1-2 thousand a game and is an independant contractor.
Behind you is your family that depends on you to bring home the bacon.

So they guy/gal on your right makes a mistake, which they should not make, and the people in front of you advertise it. The guy/gal on your left is talking directly to your boss because they just got hosed and their job could be in jeopardy. You have your family behind you who depends on you to keep the electricity on. When the hammer falls, which it must because the guy/gal on the right is obviously wrong, do you tell the people in front of you and the guy/gal on the left of you? Or do you say it will be kept in house, but the guys in front of you show highlights of the guy on the right of you officiating games like nothing has happened and the guy/gal on the left of you sees it to? You must also keep in mind, this is a million (at least) dollar business.

I think it is a slippery slope and obviously many D1 conferences (in multiple sports), the NFL and the NBA do not mind coming out and saying what the punishment will be. When a coach gets fired, when a player gets a technical in a game or when a university scandal occurs, it is all right there in the open. Is it so wrong to be open about the punishment handed down to an official?

Just playing devil's advocate.

When a coach makes a coaching mistake, no one in the school administration goes to the media and rips their coaching staff for it. If a coach misses out on a big time recruit, we do not hear the fall out behind the scenes. There are a lot of mistakes others around the game might make and we never hear anything about how their bosses fell about it. Now I am not saying I always agree that complete silence is the way to go, but I do like the way Mr. Boudreaux decided to handle it. Also if someone is taken off of a game or suspended, why does the general public need to know? I would agree if a rule is completely missed I have no problem with that being made public. But if a simple judgment is missed, that is another story.

Peace

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When a coach makes a coaching mistake, no one in the school administration goes to the media and rips their coaching staff for it. If a coach misses out on a big time recruit, we do not hear the fall out behind the scenes. There are a lot of mistakes others around the game might make and we never hear anything about how their bosses fell about it. Now I am not saying I always agree that complete silence is the way to go, but I do like the way Mr. Boudreaux decided to handle it. Also if someone is taken off of a game or suspended, why does the general public need to know? I would agree if a rule is completely missed I have no problem with that being made public. But if a simple judgment is missed, that is another story.

Peace

Just to be fair, if a coach starts to mess up he/she will get fired and it will hit the media outlets. Think about this, keeping mistakes in house might mean the NCAA committee will look at a loss differently than if the conference came out and talked about a situation.

I have said this before, there is a lot of money involved and our (officials) mistakes will start to be made public more and more.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Just to be fair, if a coach starts to mess up he/she will get fired and it will hit the media outlets. Think about this, keeping mistakes in house might mean the NCAA committee will look at a loss differently than if the conference came out and talked about a situation.

I have said this before, there is a lot of money involved and our (officials) mistakes will start to be made public more and more.

My point is it is a different set of circumstances. An official does not make the kind of money and is not personally as responsible to one entity as a coach is. Yes, we have an important job, but they do not announce when we get hired and they certainly do not announce when we get fired.

You know who the top officials are. They work the tournament every season. I also find it interesting you do not hear a lot of talk about mistakes during the NCAA Tournaments.

Peace