got the stop sign last night
 

Tomegun, you'll love this...

last night, tight game, pretty well officiated overall. Head Coach has received a T earlier in the game (well deserved). Player from our team receives a T for acting like an idiot and is on his way to receiving a second because he believes opposing team's player deserves a T as well. Official tells HC to "take care of player or I will!" HC (from his seat) tells official he already has sent a sub to the table (sub had gone to table as soon as T was reported). As the FTs are about to be shot our player who has been T'd is still fuming but has moved away from benches so we can't calm him down or even threaten him to get him to knock off the idiocy.

The calling official stayed tableside for the FTs and tells the sub he needs to wait until after the FTs to enter and after he says this he warns HC again that he is ready to give our player another T if he doesn't calm down. So I said, "We appreciate the warning and we're trying to help you out and get him out of the game, so why not just let us make the sub right now?" He looks me right in the eye (from 5ft away) and gives me the dreaded stop sign .

I had to bite my lip from laughing, because it was the silliest thing I have ever seen. Just tell me that you're going to wait or that he's going to wait until the appropriate time by rule, or even tell me (or the HC) that he isn't addressing the concerns of the assistant coach, but the stop sign is perhaps the most childish thing I have ever seen.

by rule after a T I do not think there is any restrictions as to when you can sub.

i would allow the sub asap to avoid T #2

By rule, you're wrong.

I agree. 3.3.1c. I don't see an exception for a T.

OK, 2 things here. The stop sign is kind of funny, but in all reality it sounds as if you were given the stop sign because you are an assistant coach. Assistants are bench personnel and have no reason to speak to the official. Any questions or comments should come from the head coach only. So, as comical as the stop sign was since your team was obviously trying to get the player with the attitude problem out of the game, you, as an assistant, should not have had any comment on the matter at all. In my opinion the stop sign was your warning before you as bench personell recieved a technical. Remember the quote posted here a few weeks ago: "Sorry Robin, we only talk to Batman". That is probably why the stop sign came out.

Since we're on the subject of assistants... Last night in our boys game, I went over to answer a question from the visiting HC. The assistant started to say something in complaint, realized what he was doing, and put a finger to his lips shushing himself. I thought it was pretty funny but I did appreciate it.

Yeah, we had one last night in a tight game that wanted to spout off a little bit during a TO. I patiently waited for the huddle to break, and then walked right to the HC (who was standing beside his pouting assistant) and reminded him to "either take control of his bench personnel, or we would be forced to do so." He politely said "Yes sir", and all was well for the rest of the game.

I think I have to tell the HC that he will be the only one talking at least once a week. You'd think by this time of year the assistants would get the point.

Question JR.

3-1 c. specifically mentions multiple free-throw personal fouls, not technicals.

Or is that just an unwritten assumption for ANY/ALL multiple FT's?

Reference, please. 3-3-1c indicates that the restriction is "c. During multiple free-throw personal fouls "

Is that you???
 

Is that you the very knowledgable NR assitant coach and capable official?

Well the technical is charged as a personal foul to that individual player, as well as counting toward the team fouls for putting the other team in the bonus, so I think he has the proper rule stated.

No, it's not. Is is counted toward one of the five fouls for disqualification, though.

No, it's not charged as a personal foul. It's charged as a technical foul and counted towards the player's "total fouls." Technical fouls are not personal fouls.
Personally, I'm letting the sub in.

In the immortal words of Sgt. Hulka, "Lighten up, Francis."

This assistant coach was attempting to help defuse a bad situation, and for the ref to pull out the big stop sign at that point is ridiculous.

Right. Wrong choice of words.

Upon further study..... I agree that a technical foul is not a personal foul (this I knew before) but as the rule state subs come after the first free throw on a multiple free throw personal foul. This would mean that if a sub is available before the first on a T, you can allow them by rule. It'd be nice if this was a casebook play. I'll check my rules study software tonight and see if it has been in the casebook recently.

So are you going to let Johnny sitting at the end of the bench make the same comment? Bench personnel is bench personnel. There is no difference between a bench player and an assistant coach. If anything needs to be said, let the HC handle it. I think that in that situation, the sub probably should have been let in just to help difuse the situation, but either way, the assistant coach should just be quiet.

If the "bench personnel" are trying to help defuse the situation, I'm sure not going to get on the old high horse and hit them with the Stop sign...

You've got to have an alternate plan, DJ, you CAN'T get on the old high horse.

Okay, seriously, I can see your point. So what do you do? Answer the question of why not? Ignore the Asst? What?

A perfect illustration of why I don't care for the stop sign. It seems as though this assistant was trying to help the situation. What if it was an irate coach instead of a player? If the assistant was trying to calm the coach down and told you so would you give him the almighty stop sign? BTW, I haven't reported it lately, but I got my stop sign down to .347 seconds and pulled a muscle. I've been given muscle relaxers and was told to refrain from using the stop sign for the rest of the season. :D My stop sign will be ready for summer leagues though.

In that situation, the stop sign was not necessary. But the only reason that I could figure that he gave one was because it was the assistant that was doing the talking.

A stop sign in summer leagues? When we're not getting paid full price? I just use the T sign. :D

I don't get it...

I will more than likely let the sub come in and get the little problem-child off the court...I really have no problem talking with assistant coaches in a situation like this one...now if that assistant is chirping, arguing, helping me ref, etc, that's a different story...but the stop sign in this situation was - as I said before - ridiculous.

Here's to Rockyroad, our new "Big Toe!"

http://home.fuse.net/camelot/WMD/Graphics/hulka.bmp

I'm about as anti ***'t Coaches as anyone. The only think I ever want to hear from them is "No NO it was a good call" to the head coach.:D

But IMHO, this is waaay over the top in heavy-handedness.

That's the facts, Jack!!

I agree that the stop sign was probably because I was the assistant and it probably didn't help that the HC was already sitting on a T from earlier, but as I've said before coaches are people just like officials. Talk to the assistant coach in this case or as I said in the OP tell the HC you don't want to hear from the AC, but the stop sign is childish.

That being said...when I'm officiating I don't mind responding (especially in this case during, a dead ball, in close proximity, not yelling) to an assistant's respectful question or request.

BTW...HC in this case after the game said to me that he enjoyed coaching from his seat and he might try it the rest of the season :)

In the virtual flesh.

Unbelievable game last night. Down by as much as 18 and won it at the buzzer.

It's funny but I've had a couple of coaches that seem to coach better when they are sitting. When these coaches are standing they feel they have to put on a coaching show for the parents, fans, players, etc. They feel the need to show everyone that they are "coaching" or "working the officials". This is just my observation with a few coaches.

Now, let me chime in with a slightly more cynical view. (Maybe since I'm still using cold medications it's affecting my normally cheerful personality...) In the OP, we just heard the asst. coach's point of view; we haven't heard from the official. What else happened throughout the game? Had there been other comments made prior to this? What tone of voice did this asst. use, or what were the facial expressions? Granted, it appears the official was heavy-handed, in this version. But since we don't know all the facts, I'm not ready to hang the official yet on this one. For example, I had to T a coach this year for simply saying, "Oh my god." And he asked my why he got the T just for saying that. Of course, that fact that he said it loudly, with his hands raised, standing outside the coach's box, after I had reported a foul on his team played a big part in the decision, not just the words alone.

Um, calling the kid over to the bench wasn't an option? Was the kid so far away from the bench he was out of earshot of anyone on the bench telling him to get his azz over here? So, is there another side to the story? Maybe not, but just sayin'.

As for letting the sub in, I probably wouldn't have allowed it until after the first FT as well, since there were multiple FT's and it wasn't a disqualifying foul. Now that I look at it closely, it does say "personal" foul. So maybe I do have the option of trying to diffuse the situation quicker by allowing the sub in for this player.