Site administrater interference
 

Tonight [Partner] and I officiated games between [Visitors] and [Home] middle schools. The site administrator was __________.

The keeper of the official book was inexperienced so the clock was helping him. There were times we, the officials, missed that subs were due to come in or were slow in bringing them in. At one point the coach for the [Visitors] team said, “Are you going to be bringing in the subs or not?” I am not certain those were his exact words but the tone was unsportsmanlike. I brought in the sub and told him, “You are allowed to ask a question or make a statement but it must be in a polite manner. This did not qualify.” At the next opportunity, he asked me about the situation again, in a respectful manner. I explained that we were slow in bringing in the subs and apologized. I reminded him that we weren’t getting the usual horn to remind us that subs were available because of the inexperience of the people at the table and that we all had to be patient with inexperience at this level. I assured him that we would try to be more expeditious. I then returned to the game. At the first opportunity I shared his concerns with my partner. I felt that I had handled the situation adequately.

Shortly thereafter I saw [site administrator] at the bench talking to the coach. I could see no reason for her doing so at that point. When I had the opportunity I asked her to talk to me after the game. (I know her from work.)

After the game I talked with her as I was returning to the coaches’ room. I asked her what she was talking to the coach about. She said she had asked him if there was a problem and that he had said that I had said that he had been rude.

I said, “[site administrator], you can’t be doing that during the game. You undermine the referees.” She stepped back in horror and said, “I don’t know who you think you are but my job is to make sure that the visiting coaches are happy. You can’t tell me what to do!” I told her that I would then have to report this to the association. She told me to go ahead, that both she and the visiting coach would be reporting my behavior to [vice principal]. As I was talking to her, the visiting coach came up to listen in.

I went to the coaches’ room to change my shoes so that I could leave. As I left the floor, [site administrator] and the coach continued commiserating about my behavior. I asked [partner] to stay with me because I expected what happened next. [site administrator] came into the room (I was in the back room.) and started screaming at me. “Don’t you dare do that again! Don’t you dare talk to me like that in front of everyone! If you have something to say to me, you can have me come back here and talk to me.” I reminded her that she had essentially undermined me and asked her to leave. She remained and continued screaming at me.

The rulebook specifies that the referees have jurisdiction within or outside the boundary lines. It is my understanding that the site administrators are those people to whom we turn when we have issues with the facility or the crowd. The game is our jurisdiction and she had no place talking with the coach during the game. She could easily and nearly did, exasperate the situation. I would appreciate if the association would send a letter to the school defining the site administrator’s responsibilities. This is the third time she has inserted herself into one of the games I have officiated in an inappropriate manner.

It is especially distressing that she should follow me into the dressing area. She had me cornered there. This is to be our retreat. Her job is to protect us from this type of behavior. Quite honestly, I feel she owes both [partner] and I an apology for her behavior.

That's my report. I'm just furious. I want to hit something.

Rita

Reporting this is definitely the right thing to do. Why is the site admin so chummy with the V coach? I mean, I know it's their job to work with the coaches, but I wouldn't think anyone could possibly infer from that that she should be interfering with your job! Especially since you handled the situation and got the game going.

Tomorrow or the next day, talk to your assignor about the sitch. Figure out how you might handle this next time to get your point across without the situation exploding. I'm not saying that to blame you for what happened! But if something like this does come up again, you'll come out feeling better if you can have some control of the outcome. It sounds like she's got some attitude, and if you can keep her at arm's length, you'll come out ahead.

You know her from work? You'll be seeing her tomorrow? Yikes!

Good vent...feel better? :p

Sounds like a difficult situation. I've never been faced with a game admin interfering in such a way. But you're correct. She has no business going to the visiting coach during the game. And you are definitely right to report her behavior, especially coming into your dressing room, to your supervisor and the state association. I kind of wonder if she has some type of acquaintance or relationship with the visiting coach.

Don't hit anything. Just relax, flip the remote and get your mind off it before hitting the hay. After all, tomorrow's another day! ;)

I don't know what level of game this is, or what type of site this is, but I think that there are times when we as officials shouldn't read into things and should choose our battles wisely. The best advice is what is always said on this board, get in, get done and get out. I don't know if you should necessarily have sent a report in to the assignor either, as now you are bringing more people into a situation that really is between you and the site administrator.

In terms of the actual conflict, I really don't think that it's any of your business if the site administrator wants to have a word with the visiting coach, particularly if it's not affecting the game. I know it's unpleasant, but really, in the scheme of things, it's minor. As soon as she tried to defend herself, just let her have the last word and walk away. Then, if you're uncomfortable, just request not to work at that site anymore. I think that sending this report in makes you look bad, particularly if this site administrator is established, and can get you a reputation within your group as someone who causes problems, a label that is hard to shake, and one that can severely restrict your advancement and schedule. I've heard many assignors say that the best officials that they have are the ones who work games and the assignor does not get a phone call.

In terms of the original situation with the subs, I'd probably say something to him like, "We're doing our best here, please help us by making sure your players go all the way to the X so we can see them better." Something like that to put the onus on the coach and let him know you're trying to help him out, try not to be standoffish. Just my opinion, but if you haven't sent the letter, I'd reconsider sending it.

Looks like Juules and I are thinking the same thing.

I don't see why the site admin's conversation with the visiting coach is any of your business. Unless it's directly affecting the game in some way, why should you care what they are talking about? Pretty much everybody in the building will have some gripe or another about us by the end of the game, why go looking for trouble by asking about it?

Now following you into the changing room and going off at you, that's a serious problem and needs to be reported.

I do agree that going into the changing room after the game should be reported, but I also think that it should have gotten to that point. Let the site admin have the last word and then get away.

Rita, looks like you did a good job maintaining your cool. Also, it looks like she has a history of this kind of behavior in your games; I'd be inclined to refuse to work games at that location any longer. It looks like she has an inflated opinion of her responsibilities.
Middle school games can be rough because players aren't capable of playing.
Middle school games can be rough because coaches want to officiate.
Middle school games can be rough because partners may or may not be experienced.
Middle school games aren't worth it if the site administrater thinks she can micromanage the officiating during the game.

Rita...Why would you say that (boldface above)? Even if you were trying to lighten the moment or just defuse the situation (and I don't know that you were, just guessing), why would you even give the appearance of lecturing a coach? Now he's the victim, the offended party...just ask him, he'll tell you (or site admin as the case may be). IMO, this exchange set the whole ugly, unfortunate subsequent chain-of-events into motion. I want to appear as in control and emotionally detached as possible, not confrontational.

I see a lot of criticism of Rita here. So I guess those of you who are criticizing are in the habit of allowing folks who are outside the jurisdiction of the game to just mingle on the bench anytime they please. :confused:

If there was a game management issue that needed to be addressed during the game then the site administrator should have called both coaches and the 'R' together to pass along the pertinent information. Otherwise she should have sat her intruding a$$ over behind the scorer's table and minded her own business.

Looks to me like her comment to the coach worked just fine; if it weren't for the intrusion by game management. If the coach is acting like an azz, sometimes he needs to be reminded to treat the ref like an adult rather than a player.

No, the report needs to be sent. This is the third time she has interfered in some manner at one of my games. One time she chastised me for calling too many fouls because she wanted to get home. (I let that go considering it a bad joke.) More recently, there was a dispute between the coaches on the nonstarter quarter. (One coach was accusing the other of putting in a ringer.) She came out on the floor to talk to the refs to try to get us involved. (This is a matter the coaches are supposed to report to their respective DAs.

I walked away from her when she started having the conniption out on the floor. Then she came in to the dressing area and continued.

Even if I don't work that location anymore, (there is no concern about advancement in our association) she needs to learn her role. Her "involvment" has been escalating in my games. I don't know that it is't in others. The parameters need to be set. I had things settled down with the coach. I don't want it happening to me again, or worse, a less experienced official which is most of what we have in our association.

Rita

She sounds like a real head case. You're right to report this, and I certainly hope that the "powers that be" will find a way to get at the problem. Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested to know your relationship with her at work, and how that goes. I'm also wondering what type of ball this is. Rec? School? Local Hoop club? If she's a school employee, she needs to be brought to the attention of whoever is her boss. If you don't want to discuss this on the baord, I'm not averse to a little PM gossip!

You forgot the rude & obnoxious parents that are firmly convinced that little Jimmy is the next Michael Jordan.....

In other words, middle school games, particularly boys, have the greatest potential for going downhill fast than any other level.

The coach's comments in question needed to be addressed, and we all develop our own ways of doing that. Some things will work for one official and not another - it's not just what you say, but how you say it. On top of that, individual coaches will respond differently to the same technique.....(sheesh, now we've got to be amateur psychologists! Where's Dr. Phil when we need him..:D)

It appears that Rita's initial comments to the coach settled things down, and that's the goal. The admin's subsequent conversation with the coach only fanned the dying embers. Confronting the admin about the conversation certainly didn't help any, but give the description of her previous behavior, I doubt if it made it a whole lot worse. Isn't 20/20 hindsight is a wunnerful thing?

It appears to me that this particular administrator needs to spend a little more time focusing on her responsibilities (i.e.; providing competent table personnel) and less schmoozing with the coaches. Her post game actions were way off base and do need to be reported.

This situation had to be diffused. Everybody has their own thing they say. The remark has nothing to do with the administrator's intrusion into the game.

IOW, get off her azz. If you're going post, stay focused on the topic: the administrator.

i dont see what the big deal is -- middle school game -- site admin went to see what the deal was -- coach told her you said he was rude -- all you need to say to her is what he said and how you took it and I think that would have been that.

i dont see the need for the dramatics of being undermined -- do you know what she said? -- I mean please its a MIDDLE SCHOOL GAME -- i have read many posts over the last week about such games - please temper your expectations of these games and stop holding them to the same standards as varsity, let alone High school. That expectation is just not realistic and will only get you pis$ed off and frustrated.

I have worked maybe 4-6 middle school league games in my life -- NEVER AGAIN. Rita honestly what is going to happen after you shoot off this letter? I dont see what the AD did that was bad except say that the coach said you told him he was being rude. I am sorry but this fiasco is all on you -- IMO I dont think the AD undermined you in fact in MS games if a coach was a pain in the azz it would be great to have the AD tell him/her to shut the @#$ up. I think that is a lot more poignant than a T -- its much more embarassing as well and you didnt have to do anything to relax the guy/gal. just my opinion -- to me its just MS which like I have said before, in relation to the basketball universe, is barely a blip on my radar.

Perhaps, Rita, you could have addressed the site administrator earlier, and mentioned the incompetance of the table as something she should address, rather than trying to move forward. This might have prevented the later confrontation with the site administrator, while possibly improving the game.

Another possibility might be to proactively notify the coaches that they might be having table problems and ask them to be patient with them.

I don't mean this as any kind of criticism, Rita, just brain-storming in case others run into this type of problem.

Game management has a responsibility to ensure that the table personnel are competant. We have a conflict between three people due to not addressing the inexperience of the scorebord operator.

That's bullsh!t. Game admin, whether it be AAU, MS, HS, JuCo, or whatever has no busy in handling the coaches for me during the game. The only time I need game admin to help me with a coach is if I eject the coach and the coach won't leave the confines of the gym.

And who gives a f**k whether it's a blip on YOUR radar or not. This is Rita's paycheck and Rita's game. Just b/c the game is not important doesn't mean we have to let a$$-holes ruin the experience.

Let me ask you this deecee, when you become a big time NBA/SEC/PAC-10 official, what is your advice going to be to someone who looks up to you? You know, someone from your hometown, who is just starting out and all the games they get at the moment are MS games. Are you going to tell them "Don't come to me for advice b/c the games you are working right now aren't important."?

Iow, as far as you're concerned, sportsmanship doesn't apply in middle school games, only at higher levels. Interesting philosophy.......and a stoopid one imo.

I don't think that the site admin's actions in this particular case were worthy of action. If it doesn't directly affect the game, I'm not fussing over anyone who talks to any coach unless the coach complains to me about it.

That being said, it is clear that this particular admin has a behavior of inappropriate behavior. Viewed through the prism of past actions, this becomes more troublesome. Personally, I guess that your relationship outside of basketball colored her reaction to you. That and her appearent lust for power.

all i said was that i didnt see what was undermining about what happened. what does this have to do with sportmanship.

from what i read all the ad said was that the coach said rita called him [coach] rude. if he said that to her and she said well i will talk with you or well you are out of line then yes i agree she is an azz -- but from what I read you butted into something maybe you shouldnt have. what if she was asking him if he was thirsty and wanted water?

In the middle of a game right after the official has warned the coach about his demeanor/behavior? Yeah right. :rolleyes:

That's what game administrators do in your games?

First of all, I'm not sure this was a school game and I'm not sure the site admin was the AD of the school. Second, the site admin, or AD, doesn't need to "keep the visiting coach" happy. She needs to see to it that the game is run in a suitable fashion. If she was so concerned about keeping the visiting coach happy she should have been addressing the table issues. It's clear that she was trying to undercut the ref, and furthermore, that it was personal to this particular ref. That person has no business being a site admin or AD.

Furthermore, Rita did handle it in a manner that kept the coach under control. Thus, the site admin had no business butting in. It wasn't Rita that did the butting. If the coach had gone to the site admin to complain, that would be different, but surely the site admin had better things to worry about than whether the visiting coach got his widdwe feewings huwt.

And of course he wasn't asking about water. Site admin said what the subject was, in so many words. Finally, what did Rita say, "in front of everyone" that was so humiliating to the site admin? I still dont get this. It's clearly not Rita that's got the problem here.

Im with you on this one badnews... I do a lot of middle school games right now, and I feel these games are more important than HS and MS games. You develop players in Middle School, and teach them the finer aspects of the game. Middle School games are great to get experience in officiating, because the games are competitive, but not near the level of JV/V games.

That's the point of sharing.

Rita

Rita, Jr. High ball can be a lot of fun, but most of the time it is a royal pain. There is no glory in it. Now...
1. The Sight person said her job was "to make sure the visiting coaches are happy?" Wrong.
2. She was too chummy with V coach who tattled on the mean old ref for saying something to him that wasn't nice.
3. She should not have come into the locker room and she should not have yelled at you. Very unprofessional.
4. I might get nailed for this but I'm pretty sure if you didn't work together and if you were a man this situation would never have happened. Familiarity breeds contempt!" She might feel the need to one up you because you two work together.

Must be the new math. ;)

deecee, just when I think you're starting to get it, you spout off with something dumb. :(

haha my bad... i meant HS games

1. "I reminded him that we weren’t getting the usual horn to remind us that subs were available..." This is not an excuse to miss subs.

2. “You are allowed to ask a question or make a statement but it must be in a polite manner. This did not qualify.” I don't understand why officials don't see that some things they say are not going to make the situation better. If a coach doesn't something worthy, give him/her a T. It is as simple as that. Remember, silence cannot be quoted.

3. The site administrator shouldn't have been yelling or screaming at you in the dressing room.

4. No matter what anyone might say, these games are very important to someone and should be treated as such.

5. It was wrong for admin to talk to a coach like this during the game. You could really be a jerk by stopping the game and going over to see what the conversation is about.

Just a few opinions from good old Tom. Heck, I would have been flinging stop signs around like a traffic cop. :D