...so I ran him...

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Flagrant. Making a travesty of the game. You got a problem with that?

I guess I don't have a "problem" with it. But a technical foul, even a flagrant one, is not the penalty for making a travesty of the game, by rule.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And I raaaannnn......I ran so fa awwaaayyyyy........I just raaannn, I could not get aawwwaayyy...........I couldn't get away.

I never pictured you with that particular hairstyle. . .

And yes, I'm old.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I agree with this, but I wasn't on my turf, just helping out a friend, and I didn't realize the philosophy before I got into it. I know, I know, just call my game, but it didn't seem to me that I had the right to impose myself on a whole different situation than I'm used to. I adopted the "get in, get done, get out" thing, and just got out. And I won't be back anytime soon!

Rainmaker, I understand the "get in, get done get out" approach. However, when, I am in a new environment this is when I be more assertive.

1. I want to let them know I understand the game and officiating

2. I want them to know that they will get a well officiated game with out regards of who is officiating.

I would have just penalized the behavior initially. If for some reason the coach still does not understand. I would have run the coach. It appears that the initial problem was there was a lot of foul, which would have been called if it was not for a time restraint. I ask we as officials be carefully on how we approach time constraints. Would it have been any different it the game went into overtime? I believe not.

Personally, I do not have a problem on running the coach. The way it was presented is you ran the coach, because of the jumping up and down on the sideline. This may not be the entire picture. JMO.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Personally, I do not have a problem on running the coach. The way it was presented is you ran the coach, because of the jumping up and down on the sideline. This may not be the entire picture. JMO.

It was the stomping, the waving his hands very pointedly right in front of my face, and the bellowing directly in my ear. It was a single act, timed to happen just as I was right in front of him. It was a physical, personal threat, designed to intimidate and belittle me. Designed, I say!!

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

It was the stomping, the waving his hands very pointedly right in front of my face, and the bellowing directly in my ear. It was a single act, timed to happen just as I was right in front of him. It was a physical, personal threat, designed to intimidate and belittle me. Designed, I say!!

OK, this is the entire picture. You did not initially include that in your original post. You did right to run the coach!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

It was the stomping, the waving his hands very pointedly right in front of my face, and the bellowing directly in my ear. It was a single act, timed to happen just as I was right in front of him. It was a physical, personal threat, designed to intimidate and belittle me. Designed, I say!!

Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

You're the one that questioned, not me!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

You're the one that questioned, not me!

Where did I question?

I didn't question.

truerookie didn't question.

But you certainly answered him quite defensively.

"It was the stomping, the waving his hands very pointedly right in front of my face, and the bellowing directly in my ear. It was a single act, timed to happen just as I was right in front of him. It was a physical, personal threat, designed to intimidate and belittle me. Designed, I say!!"

[blindzebra]

Get in, get done, get out in this situation is a complete cop out.

If you are in a new situation you should take the opportunity to raise their level to the level you are accustomed too and not lower yourself to theirs. As officials we should feel obligated to always do our best and the best for the game regardless of partners or situations...call our game, and hopefully raise the bar for everyone else.

[Corndog89]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

really ugly 7th grade boys' game. lots and lots of fouls that we passed on because the clock was ticking on toward the next game. Both coaches complaining about the no-calls about equally. 3rd quarter, in front of V coach, who's ahead by about 12 or so, ball turns over and we're racing back the other way. I'm new trail, watching the press. As I run up the sideline right next to the coach, he jumps up and lands on one stomping foot and then the other, simultaneously throwing his hands straight up in the air, right in front of my face, and shouting (loud enough that my partner on the far endline heard him), "Wwwaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!" See title. Sheez.

Rainmaker...I have no problem with running the coach based on his behavior (particularly as you expanded on it in a later post). However............

Like others before me in this thread, I question the boldfaced line above even if it was, as you amplified on in another subsequent post, the local "philosophy". That's a bad, bad philosophy and I would take the heat from fellow officials/site administrators for dorking up their schedule before I would adopt it. And I suspect the schools involved expected an honestly officiated game.

The game is about the kids, not the coaches, not the parents, not the officials, not the game administrators, not the schedule, etc, etc, etc. Particularly at the 7th grade level where coaching and physical/basketball IQ and skills may not be so advanced.

Finally, two questions...
1) Was the eventually ejected coach aware of this "philosophy"?
2) If so, did he agree to it?

If the answer to either is no, then it's difficult to fault him if foul after foul after foul is not called.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Where did I question?

I didn't question.

truerookie didn't question.

But you certainly answered him quite defensively.

"It was the stomping, the waving his hands very pointedly right in front of my face, and the bellowing directly in my ear. It was a single act, timed to happen just as I was right in front of him. It was a physical, personal threat, designed to intimidate and belittle me. Designed, I say!!"

true rookie said, "Personally, I do not have a problem on running the coach. The way it was presented is you ran the coach, because of the jumping up and down on the sideline. This may not be the entire picture. JMO."

I originally posted, "he jumps up and lands on one stomping foot and then the other, simultaneously throwing his hands straight up in the air, right in front of my face, and shouting (loud enough that my partner on the far endline heard him), "Wwwaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!"" I was just clarifying that it wasn't just for jumping up and down.

You said, "I do. How is a coach stomping and yelling making a travesty of the game?

Unsporting? Yeah. Ejection? Possibly. "

I took that as questioning. I guess I misunderstood. I don't feel defensive about making the call. Which is rare for me, I usually question everything I do.

Frankly, I don't feel defensive about the tone of the games and the no-calls. I was helping out a friend, and I did it in the way that would be helpful to him. For me to assert (inject?) my own philosophy into a situation that had nothing to do with me was simply not appropriate. I will assert myself next time by simply not doing those games again.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

For me to assert (inject?) my own philosophy into a situation that had nothing to do with me was simply not appropriate.

See BZ's post.

I just think you're dismissing a lot of things. Based on what you've said, the way the game was called was not fair to the kids. Maybe I'm wrong but that's just me. Anyway, I'm done.

[TriggerMN]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

really ugly 7th grade boys' game. lots and lots of fouls that we passed on because the clock was ticking on toward the next game. Both coaches complaining about the no-calls about equally. 3rd quarter, in front of V coach, who's ahead by about 12 or so, ball turns over and we're racing back the other way. I'm new trail, watching the press. As I run up the sideline right next to the coach, he jumps up and lands on one stomping foot and then the other, simultaneously throwing his hands straight up in the air, right in front of my face, and shouting (loud enough that my partner on the far endline heard him), "Wwwaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!" See title. Sheez.

Do you still write an article for the paid portion of this site? Thanks for reminding me again why I don't subscribe to that. While the humor many of my officiating friends and I find in posts like this may be worth a few bucks, in the long run, the complete disregard for and misapplication of the game surely won't make me a better official.

Carry on rant.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

lots and lots of fouls that we passed on because the clock was ticking on toward the next game.

I have no idea if the coach deserved to be ejected or not. That's entirely your call. However, I would never change my reffing style because of time constraints. Just ref your usual game. Time constraints are not your concern.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

See BZ's post.

I just think you're dismissing a lot of things. Based on what you've said, the way the game was called was not fair to the kids. Maybe I'm wrong but that's just me. Anyway, I'm done.

Well, I like your little smilies, although I don't appreciate the "BS" implications. Why can't we just agree to disagree without getting vulgar?

I gotta admit, I'm quite surprised by the response to this thread. I respect most of you very much, and have learned a lot from almost all of you. I know that sometimes the format here gets in the way of us fully understanding what we're saying to each other, but I suspect there's more to this disagreement than that. So because in general your opinions are important to me, and I'd like to explore what's going on here so I can "do better next time", could we find a way to continue this as a discussion, rather than an arguement? Even after considering the various opinions, I don't feel that what I did today was a disservice to The Game, but I'm willing to change my mind.

A lot of the refs that were working at this tournament today are very good refs, that are committed to always doing a great job. This wasn't the hacks and slackers that just want to take their checks and go home. How do I weigh their opinions against those that I'm hearing here? People I respect equally, and who I suspect would respect each other, who are completely opposite on this one thing. Is there a way to discuss this out to some sort of resolution?