Ever do a game that is no fun?
 

I had a game tonight with a boy's program that is out of control. This coach has already caused the assigner to move several officials. My partner, who is white, called a foul for this team and the coach was upset because my partner called a non-shooting foul instead of a shooting foul. Yeah, he got the foul, just not the one he wanted. I'm table side, since we don't go tableside when we call fouls, and he says, "See that ref, that is just racist." The other team had a white head coach and two assistants. All of the kids on both teams were black. That was enough for me and I gave him what he earned. I don't think there is any place for this in high school sports. Besides all that, my partner has different nationalities in his family.

I just emailed my assigner and asked him to take me out of the game when I have this team again. It just isn't any fun doing their games and not worth the money.

Has anything like this happened to anyone else?

I hope what he earned was a flagrant technical.

Do the kids (current and future) a favor and send a note to your President, state association or school principle. Heck - even the school Board.

If this was my kids school I would really appreciate it.

Needs to be addressed.

I just gave him a technical and now I'm pissed. Its like this with me: if anyone thinks something like that should be a flagrant technical, I'm all for it. I didn't consider it; this is actually a first for me. If there is ever another time when I hear something like this I will add the flagrant to the T. I don't have any problem with that at all.

Additionally, I had to call an intentional foul in the first minute of the game. A player made contact with the inbounder. Another first for me.

I agree. Looks like this guy needs to be dealt with differently than moving officials around. If enough officials (ie, your association) decide to deal with this appropriately, then it'll stop or he'll be finding himself a new coaching gig.

I worked a juco game where I and a player were the only 2 white people in the gym (maybe the only 2 white people in a half mile radius). My partner called a foul on the white player and as we were lining up for FTs the white player mumbled that he knows I would have never called that foul on him. I didn't T him but I let him know he better not come to me with that sh1t again. He avoided me the rest of the game.

Turned out to be a great game btw.

Never experienced anyone bringing that sh1t to me in such a blatant way though. Good T.

OK, you just made me pause Shark. :D

My assigner and president were at the game and the assigner left before the game was over. I think he should have game into the "locker" :rolleyes: room with us. This coach's (he was the visitor) AD was at the game too. This coach has a problem with all kinds of officials. One more thing. These two schools are not in the same district. This is a historic rivalry and this is the first year they have played in a while. The coaches do not like each other. They almost got into a fist fight last summer at the local high school camp. They also got into an argument during the last five seconds of overtime in the first meeting this year. My partner (the supposed racist) gave them both a T. The administrators of these two schools made the coaches play this game. The coaches wouldn't have played them otherwise.I say all this to say, everyone knows about this coach.

This whole situation was just so stupid to me. This was the second half of the game and there was absolutely nothing that would indicate an ounce of racism. BTW, this coach's team won the first meeting at home in overtime. Tonight they lost by about 10. He has superior talent, but he doesn't maximize it.

I don't think I would have given a flagrant technical for the one remark listed, though I won't say it would be wrong. I would likely, however, file a written report with the state association for severe verbal abuse, especially if stuff like that had gone on constantly through the game.

You just gave him a T and all he had to do for the rest of the game was have a seltbelt for the rest of the game. He would hear about this game in the locker room or outside or maybe in the newspaper.

Forget flagrant t, you shoulda stop signed him...that woulda taken care of it. :rolleyes:

I'm with Rich & Snaq on this one - flagrant T & he can do any further coaching from the parking lot. I don't care if the coaches/players/officials are white, black, green, or purple with pink polka dots, There's absolutely no excuse for this kind of thing...send him packing!

Yep.

Welcome to my world. ;)

Peace

I was doing some varsity ball at the local Air Force base, with my high school partner at the time, during the annual base tournament...service teams, local JUCO, local mens league teams, and the JV team from the Air Force Academy.

In one game I was the only white guy on the floor, I called a foul and as I'm reporting I hear an emphatic whistle behind me, my partner had just tossed the guy I called a foul on.

The player said, "F'ing white ref, that's BS."

My partner said, "Well it's the black ref who is throwing you out of the game."


So yeah, I think anytime a player or coach goes there, a flagrant is justified.

Well, I guess the only color officials see is our black and white stripes

Yup....automatic. Gotta be reported too.

The email was sent to the assigner last night although he was at the game.

I usually ignore fans, but I had an elderly gentleman in the second row accuse me of racism on a travel call:eek: ! I had him removed. I have the return game Saturday at their place. Boy is he going to be surprised!

I dont stand for that kind of stuff in any way shape or form. Was doing an AAU tournament once and a coach made a similar comment about my partner who is black. He used the N word.

Flagerant T, ejection, called game management over and refused to start the game back up until he was removed from the building completely.

There is no place for that kind of crap!

Tom, reporting this your assignor is the right move. And in hindsight, calling a flagrant 'T' may or may not have been the more appropriate punishment.

However, don't allow this situation nor this coach's ignorance cause you to pull yourself from his games. Take those games like you would any other and call the game the way you always call games and deal with that coach's behavior and comments in the appropriate manner.

Can't let coaches run off good officials. If enough strong officials deal with this coach on a consistent, no bullsh!t allowed, basis, either he or his AD or his school administration will get the message.

Yes - I had 2 7/8 grade boys games last night and the administration was terrible. They never checked on us between halves or games, never asked if we needed anything (i.e. water) and after the end of the games, didn't even bother to thank us. I don't ask for a lot, but a little courtesy goes a long way. My partner and I felt very unwelcome.

Be careful here, mjbofficial. What you experienced very possibly had nothing to do with your race and may simply have everything to do with poor game administration. Middle schools, at least in places where I have lived, are not really known for wonderful game administration. You may not have felt as "welcomed" as you'd like, but it may have more to do with a lack of volunteers or professionalism than your race (since you posted this in this particular thread, that's the implication I took).

No, race was not a factor. My partner and I worked a JV game the night before and I made a huge charge call against the home team with ~ 1 min. left in the game and they obviously didn't agree. Tonight, they disagreed w/a few calls that my partner made in the first half of the first game and we think they just weren't happy with the calls (even though they were up by 15). Also, I have worked at the school 2 other times this season and have not had any problems with hospitality.

It's not a huge deal, just more annoying than anything else. Working 2 games and not being offered any water bothered me. We finally grapped a cup from the bench during a TO in the 2nd game.

Game management at the middle school level is often a bare minimum. Get used to it. As you move up, you get treated better. I had a long night Tuesday night. We were working one of only 4 1A varsity nights on our schedule this year. One team had some basketball players, the other had a lot of athletes, but not skilled basketball players. The fans were horrible (I had the AD talk to one guy). The coaches were OK, but left some to be desired. The quality of play was awful, and of course since it was a smaller school the check was a little smaller than usual as well. Everyone has these long nights on occasion. It's part of the job.

If they give you water or Gatorade, fine, but realize that they're trying to curry favor with you, and they expect you to reciprocate in some way. Unless you are friendly with game management, I would advise supplying your own refreshments, even if they offer. There should never be any appearance of undue influence.

OH GOOD LORD!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

WHAT HAPPENED TO COMMON COURTESY IN THIS WORLD??? DOES EVERY ACTION HAVE TO HAVE SOME NEFARIOUS MEANING BEHIND IT??????? Its common practice here in Ohio that the host school provide at least water for the officials. We don't consider it a bribe. We consider it professionalism on the part of the AD and his staff.

See! It's working already.

It's not a big deal, but there's a reason cops aren't allowed to take free donuts, and it doesn't have to do with their waistline. It's certainly not something you should take for granted or something that you should consider a slight if you don't get.

In Ohio, you must be talking about jv/varsity because middle schools games have never offered water to us. No big deal as there is always a drinking fountain within, say 50 ft, and with 6 min quarters, just go get a drink between them--or carry a bottle like I do. As the game progresses, I cant imagine the "AD" asking me during the 4 min halftime how I'm doing....

Huh? I expect to be treated with courtesy in my real job by my boss. I expect to be treated with courtesy by the waitress that serves me my food. SHe expects me to treat her courteously as well, as she should. I expect the UPS guy to deliver stuff to my company to behave with courtesy. I expect the police officer that stops my son for speeding:rolleyes: to treat him courteously but with professionalism.

Its not some sort of conspiracy that causes me to call that foul in the fourth quarter on the visiting team center. School A gives us Gatorade. School B gives us water. We don't call more fouls on B when they are visiting A because of it. The AD doesn't give us the water to get that call. He does it out of courtesy.

That's the whole problem with our society any more. Everything has some subterfuge in it. Or if it doesn't, Oliver Stone will do a movie about the conspiracy anyway.:mad:

Oh c'mon. I am extremely friendly and polite with game management....ALWAYS. It really isn't too much to ask for them to provide a bottle of water. That's not exactly undue influence.

So now the game rate is $x plus a bottle of water?

You're not doing them a favor by working a game, you're getting paid for it. Buy your own water, or drink from a fountain. If on the other hand, you're volunteering, than please accept my apology.

BTW, I serve as game management for a CYO program in NY, and I always provide bottled water for the officials because I want to provide a friendly atmosphere for the officials, and as you point out, it's a small enough thing to do. I want the officials to look forward to working at our school and not look at it as a chore. It's to atone for some of the nutty parents and coaches we've had in the past.

But you can't imagine how many visiting coaches use the same line, "Trying to buy the refs?", when they notice this. Is the dollar you save worth this?

Water is a courtesy item, nothing more. Most schools around here provide it as a matter of policy. It's probably a regional (market) thing.

:rolleyes: <font></font>

i have never heard an opposing coach say "trying to buy the refs" with a bottle of water. come on jim how cheap are we to get bought for so little.

now slip a $5er and we are talking :)

Shouldn't this be a Player T per 4-19-5c and 10-8?

Nope. Touching the ball while still in the hands of the inbounder is a T. Contacting (or fouling) the inbounder is an intentional personal foul.

In AZ the home team is required to supply a private, locked dressing room, towels, shower and drinks at the high school level...REQUIRED.

Seems to me the fact that you do it as game management should tell you all you need to know...that is unless, you are attempting to bribe the officials that work for you.;)

If someone is trying to bribe me the bottle better be filled with something better than water.:D I don't think a bottle of water is too much to expect from the host school. I really don't work many places that don't have that available. Most places also give some food at the end of a varsity evening, but its nothing I expect or worry about if it doesn't happen.

There is a school around here who has a teacher that runs the scoreboard. She alwyas makes Brownies for the officials to take home after the game...win or lose....although she always gives this evil giggle if they lose.

Considering we usually get put in a coach's office with no water, or in a teacher's lounge where the water coming out of the tap is brown, and any drinking fountain is tucked away somewhere out of sight, a bottle of water is a pretty reasonable thing for a school to do for the officials. But I don't expect it. Several schools I've been to provide water for the varsity guys, but not the others. Seems kinda cheap on their part, but whatever. As for bribery...get a life. :rolleyes:

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. There wasn't a fountain anywhere near our changing room and I don't think it would be strange for me to head up to the concession stand in between games for a bottle of water.

If visiting coaches tell you that line, that's completely absurd.

I respect your opinion and it's nice to hear a perspective from the other side, I just don't happen to agree with it.:)

dont lie since when has different perspectives and opinions been *nice* ;)

Phoenix had the best facilities by far of any state I've ever been in. That is where I started so I'm talking about being treated really well as a JV official!

You have got to be kidding. EVERY SCHOOL I work provides water at halftime and many provide a towel for the post-game shower. The schools that DON'T provide these things are the ones I remember since there are so few that don't. But it would have no effect on how I call the game. One team has white jerseys and the other doesn't. I don't even think of them as home and away when the game is being played.

I've told a coach, "These stripes are black *and* white. Don't ever accuse me of cheating again."

Yes. And, that's a good point. If an official is going to be "bribed" by a bottle of water, what's going to happen with the $50 check?

I remember an AAU or BCI game where all the girls on one team were white and the other team was all black. Parent's of one team said we made bad calls against the white team because we didn't think white kids could play basketball ! The other parents said we were racist cheating the black team because we were white ! .....I hate those summer leagues where the parents are just too close to the court !

All the kids and coaches were well-behaved though and we all laughed about the over-zealous parents.....

Some schools provide water. Some schools don't. Some schools pay at the game site. Some schools don't. Some schools do both. Some schools do neither. Some schools have showers that take 3 days to get warm. Some schools have hot water right away. Some schools have no showers. I've got better things to do than to take out a spread sheet to see which schools do the most.

So now the game fee is $x plus a hot shower?

Last night was a game that was fun.

Somehow the assigner for high school, NAIA and JUCO were all on the same page and I'm working with a particular partner (the one who was called a racist) a lot during the second half of the season. Last night was our third game together in a row and we had a good game in New Orleans. The coaches were good to work for, the players played hard and the game was up and down. It probably helps tha
t this is a rivalry game, the two teams practice/play in the same gym because of the hurricane and there has been some trash talk that the coaches didn't want to escalate.

Oh, it was also nice to get paid twice as much too! :D

It was good to leave the gym with a better feeling than I did the other night.

One more thing. The coach from our game on Friday night was complaining about the fouls and he made the statement, "I will fix that on Monday." Of course my partner gave him a T. What the coach was referring to was his ability to scratch officials and/or rip and official in the ratings. Whoever thought of this was smoking something and this system sucks. It has been my experience that many high school coaches are neither knowledgeable enough or remain unbiased enough to give officials fair and realistic ratings. It becomes a weapon and a threat to control officials. Add the fact that they can complain without sending tape and you have a bad situation all the way around. I might ref my way out of high school basketball here, but I will do it with integrity and by doing the right thing for the game.

Coaches like that will soon run out of officials. I agree with you about keeping your integrity. There have been nights that I've been tempted to walk out before the game was over and tell them to keep the freakin' check because it just wasn't worth it.

They might run out of <b>good</b> officials, but they won't run out of officials. They will be left with the people that are afraid to make a tough but correct call. Unfortunately.

IMO, 20% would be fair and honest in their rating, 60% would rate you higher if they won and lower if they lost, and 20% would nail you even if they won if there was a call that stuck in their head that they didn't like.

We all have heard the horror stories of coaches putting in names of officials they want for the playoffs that have retired or were even dead.

No system should allow coaches more than 10-15% of the overall rating system for officials...maybe we should have input for their job evaluations with their schools?

The 2A christian schools were the best, one always had a goody basket in the dressing room with cookies, chips and fruit.

Holiday tournaments are really good too, all schools hosting have a hospitality room.

Hands down the best school I've been to was in Paola, Kansas...they assigned a student to the officials. The kid escourted you to and from the dressing room, ran you out water on timeouts, and their hospitality room for tournaments...Wow!

LOL........