would you "t" a coach for saying...
 

I had this happen tonight in JV boys game. Home team player A1 dribbles in to lane on a fast break, opposite defender on lowblock comes over and stands somewhat under basket... A1 charges into him... I call the charge and then the home coach tells me that " a varsity official would not call that"... I respond that I will call that tonight since its a charge".... Here in KY there are separate rating systems and I am on the bubble on boys varsity side but full varsity on girls.... and he knows that.... I don't "t" him because I know he is working me... what does everyone think?

"A varsity player wouldn't have done that."

A varsity coach wouldn't have said that.

I do not like to say I would T anyone for one comment. The comment is kind of personal, but I do not know I would be offended. I might have a comeback, but it would likely take a lot more than just this comment alone.

Peace

"Really, coach? Which official do you mean? Tell me his name so I can report him for being incompetent." :cool:

If not calling a T is eating at you, I think you know the answer already.

Seem's you answered what I would want to assess .... you seem to know the coach and know he was "working you".

Personally I would say it is demeaning and my guard would be up - if not the ol' STOP sign.

VB home team up by 7, other team foul, both teams in double bonus. We go to shoot freethrows, home team coach asks for a intentational foul, I told him the foul I called was a hand check since the visting was fouling to stop the clock. He ask me isnt that what the rule book says that if a player grabs isnt that intentational.I said coach the foul I called was not the foul that he wanted. He turned and told his assistance, "thats alright he's missed the entire game anyway ". Iasked him Coach would you care to repeat yourself". He did not say anything. Does this situation call for A Tech because I heard wht he said That was his 1st comment to me up that point that was negative he just question calls all night

"T"ing the coach
 

Well, My goal for this year was not to give any of my precious "T"s away, but 2 weeks ago, I had to let a few go. Three to be exact....It's a fairly long story, but fun if you have the time.

This is my 7th year refereeing. I coached for 11 years...So I think I am more understanding of what a coach goes through on the side line, than some officials.

History, I "T"ed this coach up 2 years ago. I have been doing his games for 5 years. I get about 3 or 4 of his teams games a year. I have tried to avoid it as much as possible "T"ing him up again. He pushes all the referees every game.

Early in the game, he was out of the coaches box and I told him to get back in the box. He did. Later, he was out of the box again ( on the floor ) and I told him to get back in the box. He laughed at me. I had enough of him being a smart A$$ and I "T" him up. He asks why and As I am reporting to the table, I tell him he has lost the use of his box and must remain seated., Shoot 2 free throws and bring the ball in opposit the table...his team rebounds the ball and brings the ball down court..where he is on his knees in the coaches box...BANG "T" " Coach you are gone" Again, he knew what he was doing, he was pushing my buttons and I pushed back.

First time in 7 years that I have every ejected a coach. Next night, a different coach is out of the box and I tell him, coach stay in the box....next time down the floor, he has both feet beyond the side line on the floor "T", I warned him and I wasn't going to go through it over and over. He remained seated the rest of the night...BTW, the "T" came in less than 2 minutes into the game...I did have a trigger finger....But that is behind me and no "T"s in my last 15 games!:D

Well this is kind of similar that happend last night. I had a fast break and a-1 does this shoulder dive on a planted b1. Charge. Coach says that is not a charge because he didn't "fall" down. I told him that he can't go and charge into somebody like he is a running back.

With all due respect, :rolleyes: this comment is not at all similar to the other comments in this thread.

I stand corrected

thats a nice one!:D

I wouldn't. Not to that comment, at least. He wants you to say something so he can go off on you. Just say, "OK", and move on. Chances are he won't say another word and will get pissed (mostly at himself) because you weren't baited into a fight.

Guys, take my word for it, the letters O followed by K does wonders. You obviously have other tools at your disposal, but if it isn't a question, why respond?

Then that is your style and you have the right to do that. I on the other hand have another style. I am going to address that comment in some way. Now if you just want to say "OK" and move on that is your prerogative to do so. I on the other hand know a comment like that is going to come with another smart aleck comment if it is not addressed. Then I will have to give a T for something stupid that I do not want to.

Peace

I have said ok and the coach was still on me like white on rice, a paper plate, a glass of milk, and a snow storm. With me coming back with a respectful comment, he will be most likely to NOT to complain about every call me and/or my partners make. OK can only go so far

by blowing the whistle and forming the T sign with my hands. His comment was clearly disrespectful.

I don't get it -- it wasn't a varsity game, was it?

That said, I'd probably just laugh and make sure the coach saw me laughing, but that's me.

Why why why are you talking so much to a coach? Answer the question and move on. If you think he did/said something that was over the line - your line - give him a technical foul.

Last week, I did a D3 NCAA game and no-called a very marginal contact situation. It wasn't even a push, it was like a brush from behind. Immediately after the brush, the ballhandler traveled, which I called.

The coach wanted the foul, obviously, and said, "This is the big time, this ain't no high school game!"

I didn't respond at all. Same kind of comment as you got, kmw; kind of saying that the level of this game is beyond you or you're not ready for it. But since my assignor obviously thinks I am ready for it, the comment is not worth my time.

Very silly goal. Much more productive things to work on.

Why try to avoid it? I don't get that. If he brings it on himself, you give it to him (which you obviously did in this game). If not, you don't. Why worry about avoiding it?

Maybe I'm just not in tune with what you're trying to get at, but I can't say that I like the way you seem to deal with technical fouls.

It's not? The original post was about a block/charge situation that resulted in a PC foul and the coach made a stupid comment. Bud's post is about a block/charge situation that resulted in a PC foul and the coach made a stupid comment.

Seems quite similar to me. Is one of us missing something?

(And why roll your eyes when talking about respect? If you respect him, don't roll your eyes. If you don't respect him, don't say you do.)

This is not good. :mad:

I know ther is NO imaginary circle under the basket but was this kid playing defense? I didn't see your play but oftentimes around here, a kid standing under the goal taking a crash is either a blocking foul or nothing depending on the severity.

On the other hand, you mentioned in another post that this coach pushes all the officials. If everyone would give him a tech when he earns them, (A) he's got some 'splainin to his AD. (B) the conference recognizes there's a problem. (C) your assignor will now move from backing you 100% to 110%.

I get so frustrated and it may not be the same in other areas. The coach holds a lot of power with who he wants to see advance or not and who he or she wants to see for games. That puts a lot of strain on some officials. i did a Varsity girls game last night and the team was from a different region and normally has different association doing their games and he out right accused our crew for cheating and slanting the calls the other way. and he has the power to not request us as a group. How do we as official hold strong if that is allowed.

I took the original post as more questioning a T. I know I also just commented on the block/charge call in another post but I'm just saying.

Also, I didn't post the icon as a roll the eyes, as others have done in the past, it was meant to look up at his post.

Thanks for the imput Scrapper :eek:

I hear you. Coaches are always looking for an advantages, exploiting matchups, scouting teams, etc to help their team win. If they are given this huge lever that they can flip which will both help their team win even if it means trying to influence the officials and their future, why wouldn't they? On the other hand, we've got enough basketball around here that I don't want to work for that coach again anyways.

I agree that his post wasn't 100% on-topic, but you said that it wasn't at all similar, when it was actually very similar. I'm just saying. :)

Well, then I guess I was the one who was missing something. It happens.

I think the answer to your question is integrity. You do the same job every game no matter who the coach is or who is watching. It might take longer to get the results you desire, but in the end you will know you did everything above board.
For the first time in my career, I'm in a situation where coaches have a good deal of power. It has been good and bad for me so far. I have picked up some games because officials were taken out. On the flip side, I had one coach rip me a new one in the evaluation. We aren't supposed to know who the coach is (it is on Arbiter), but I know for certain which coach gave me this particular evaluation. Among other things, he said I was trying to give one of his players a technical foul.:confused: I don't think I have ever tried to give someone a technical foul. Either I give a T or I don't, there isn't no "tried" to it. My advice would be to just stay the course and what is meant to happen for you will happen for you.

Well said. If you are still feeling you left one out there, you probably did.

Splaining the "T"s
 

There are several reasons why I tried to avoid "T"ing him up,

1- if there's a personality conflict between coaches and officials, they remove you from his schedule. If I am giving him a "T" every time he deserves it, I wouldn't work any of his games, His school is 15 minutes from my house. We work as far away as 1 hour and 15 minutes each way.

2-I wondered if it was that I just didn't like him, but I don't have a problem with other coaches at all.

3-I have asked my partners to "T" him up if he needed it, but none of them hava and beyond the shadow of a doubt, he deserved them.

I did "T" up another coach last year and he asked to have me removed from all his games for the rest of the season, Now here's what he did.

His assistant coach yelled after a call and as I ran past him, he yelled again, I ignored it, but coming back down court again past the bench, he yells the same thing a 3rd time and I give him a "T", telling the coach, that I don't have to listen to his assistant. The coach asks " What did he say to you?" I told him what he said ( complaining about my call ) and the coach said, " Well at least he didn't call you an F'ing A'Hole" I said, coach, you have lost your coaching box and I walked away. Everyone tells me I could have "T"ed him up right there, but I walked away. We shot 2 bring the ball in opposit the table. Next trip down the floor, He is standing and coaching his team BANG, now I got him and I am fine with this "T" He calls my assignor and asks me to be removed from his games and BTW, I was removed from his games. meaning that I am traveling to get games.

I did do one of their games this year, no problem. The past is the past.

Terrapins Fan, where are you located in Maryland? If it is one of the counties around DC, can you tell me what school this is or PM me if you don't want to post it?

tomegun, As always I appreciate your wisdom and thoughts. I do and have my intergrity. Keep in mind how many officials won't make a call knowing that their career may come to a short hault. I go out there every night and forget who and what may have said or done the last time I called their game. How many officials won't make a certain call becuase they may be black balled. I have made myself a reputation over the last couple of years that it's strictly business and move on. Some don't and won't. IMO

Wow. You would rather T him for a coaching box infraction than for calling you a **cking ***hole? There has to be something that I'm just not getting. I'm not saying anything against you personally, Terp, honest. There must be some regional philosophy or system or something that I just don't understand.

You have to do what your assignor wants you to do, I guess. But I would go to him/her and very sincerely ask for advice on how to handle these types of situations. I can't believe that your assignor would fault you for T'ing the comment that coach made.

Why? Isn't it the essence of defense for a player to take a position the other team want to pass through? He's attempting to force the shooter to pull up for a short jumper rather than a layup. This should either be a no call or a PC foul....NEVER a blocking foul.

1) Congratulations. You have now become that coach's very own pet referee, to do with as he wishes. Make sure that you don't make any calls against his team either that might get him upset too. You don't want to lose those games. Sad....:rolleyes:

2) Nope, you should have tossed him. To allow any coach to get away scot-free from saying anything like that is ridiculous.

The officials "around here" really need to read case book play 10.6.1SitC. They're wrong.

I stand behind the no t...
 

After reading all the posts and reading the case play (thanks juraissic:o ), it was clearly a charge. The defense came over and was planted prior to A1 leaving his feet and charging. I know that the coach was working my limits and seeing what was my response. Based on his comment, he knows it was the correct call, I think he was looking to see what kind of comeback comment I would have made. I personally like the "a varsity coach wouldn't ask that" and the "a varsity player wouldn't have done that". A varsity player would have stopped and taken the bunny shot...I stand by my comment of "its a charge and thats why I called it that way". As for rehashing this scenario, I am more peeved at myself for not having the quicker wit. The only other thought to add is that I am a woman officiating a mens game and before they will score me in the top 40 boys rank in my association, they need to know what will bother me. I am a varsity official whether it be boys or girls....:D

If you're going to use something like these, I might suggest "A varsity official wouldn't have to" -- in my mind, at least, there's a subtle difference that takes some of the "accusation" of the player / coach out of the saying.

You're right...
 

The subtle word changes can make a world of difference...

He didn't call me a F***ing A**hole, he said, " it's a good thing HE didn't call you a F***ing A**Hole" Subtle difference and yes, I think I could have "T"ed him up for that, but I knew he would cross the line in a matter of time. He was getting his butt kicked by a team that wasn't even in his class. ( his team was ranked in the top 5, the other team not in the top 10 ( or 20 for that matter )

2004 POI:
The committee is concerned about the use of inappropriate language by players, bench personnel, coaches, officials and spectators. Each group has a responsibility to the game and to each other to demonstrate civility and citizenship.

The team huddle is not a safe haven for coaches' bad language. Players are not permitted to "let off steam" by using profanity, even if it is not directed at an opponent or official. Being angry at oneself is no excuse. Officials are not exempt either. Inappropriate references to players or coaches are not acceptable. Game administrators must also pay particular attention to fans. A game ticket is not a license to abuse.

Same thing. He's telling you that you're a "farging icehole", but he's glad that the coach didn't tell you that you were. Kind of like:

Coach: Hey ref, can you T me up for something that I think?
Ref: No, Coach.
Coach: Good. Because I think you suck.

He already crossed the line. And big time, too. Not just standing outside the coaching box. He just called you fargin icehole -- to your face!!! What the heck line were you waiting for?

I don't know your experience or the area you're from. And I don't mean any of my comments to be taken personally. But from an officiating POV, I can't imagine NOT pulling the trigger on that comment. As I said in a previous post, I can't imagine that your assignor would not back you up on that call.

This is not at all relevant, IMO. Up by 2, down by 50, you call me a fargin icehole to my face, and your night is probably done.