Airball!
 

Would you warn give a 'T' if A1 shoots, misses everything, and three players from B bench say the infamous, "AAAIIIIRRRRBALLL!"

Just curious. Would it matter to you if it was loud enough for the opponents to hear it or not?

I might say something to the coach, "Coach, a lot of people might consider that taunting. I'd rather not have to make that decision tonight."

Oooh, Snaq, I like that one. I'm hope that I get to use that one before the season's over!

Popped first Bench Technical this year along these discussion lines - less than three hours ago!

Close Boys JV game, District rivals.

Guard at top of key puts on a great spin move and gets the defender to turn a 360 and fall over like a rag-doll.

Happened in close proximity the offensive Bench, a bench that just wouldn't let it go with first laughter, then more, then fake laughing and pointing from a seating position.

Taunting is like the US Supream Court judge said about ponography - you know it when you see (or hear) it.

I like that one too, Snaq. Thanks! And in keeping with the mentality on this forum, RefDaddy, I have to tell you. . . .SUPREME

I had a girl in a 7th game do it on a free throw, it was loud enough so the gym could hear it. She got a Technical.

Saturday NIght, boys JV. Visiting Bench in first half (located on front row of bleachers) started yelling and kicking the bleachers. Home1 made the first free throw. I just told the bench to knock it off. I don't want to hear that from the bench. The coach immediately jumped all over them. Handled.

What would you have done if the free throw was missed?

I already had my fist out signaling disconcertion.

Agree.

Could you issue a technical foul in addition if the players on the bench persisted, and who would the "T" be charged to?

General question, btw, not just to Ignats.....

Nice call Ig. First time, disconcertion. Second time, assess the technical foul for bench decorum/unsporting act . . . indirect to Head Coach.

Wrong.

Second time, call both disconcertion <b>and</b> a team technical for unsporting behavior on the bench. (no indirect to the head coach).

That was really not a fair question. The FED clarified the call in a POE back in the 2001-02 rule book, but never put in a case play or anything that would let people who don't have that book(which would be most officials) know how they wanted it called. The exact wording in the POE was <i>"If persistent or deemed unsporting, the <b>team</b>/player may be penalized with a technical foul."</i>

I have to admit, I was uncertain about the disconcertion AND the technical foul, and I thought about it before posting my previous response. It does make sense though. Why no T on the Coach? Are they not responsible for the behavior of their bench?

I like this, ignats.

I was watching a game before ours in a tournament a month ago, and the bench started doing this. The coach turned around and told them to knock it off. After the game, I told the coach that it was great to see him do this, as it teaches the kids sportsmanship. Wouldn't you know, in our game, our bench did the exact same thing, and I was able to turn around and tell our bench to knock it off. :rolleyes:

Also, I hope most people don't have a problem with a T if this happens repeatedly.

I really don't know. To be consistent, similar to case book play 10.4.1SitD, you would think that the head coach should get an indirect "T" also. It makes sense. They didn't mention an indirect "T" in the POE though, which might have been a mistake. Who knows?

Wouldn't you charge the T indirectly to the coach? as in the thread I started, I issued a direct T to the player who yelled at me, and I should have also charged it indirectly to the coach. Wouldn't that essentially be the same?

My last response(2:51pm) answers this question, I believe.

JR,

The problem is that according to the chart in the back of the Rule Book, ALL Unsporting Bench Technicals are Direct to the offender AND Indirect to the HC.

Um, yeah, I realize that and have already stated such. That doesn't change the <b>fact</b> that the POE doesn't mention that an indirect "T" should also be charged to the head coach. As I said, it seems logical to me too that the head coach should get one. It might have been left out by mistake, but I don't know that for sure and that's why I didn't add it. I'm just reciting what was actually written in the POE.

I'm the messenger, not the rulesmaker. :)

Yeah, but around here don't they shoot the messengers?? ;)

All I would say is that I would assume whats in the rule book would take precedent over a POE.

#1.) If the bench says airball! I got no problem with that and neither should you. That's apart of the game.

JR, my question to you. Which do you use, a POE on a newsletter or the rulebook?

NFHS, bench technical counts as a indirect to the coach. Interesting enough, this year in the NCAA, they did away with the indirect technical to the coach, or IMO, they might as well have done away with it. They are saying that Indirect T doesn't count toward ejection which means you might as well not count it at all. However, they changed the definition to now include Bench Technical. Now in this case, in the NCAA, you can not assert a technical foul to the bench, you must give a direct to a player on the bench, and the coach gets a bench technical which does count towards ejection. All indirect technicals to the coach in NCAA no longer count towards ejection. Changed it this year, but didn't hear about it in meetings.

This is taunting pure and simple. Let it go in college intramurals, I suppose, if the assigner wants you to. :rolleyes:

JMO, my answer to you, and I'll go real slow hoping that you might actually comprehend it:


The POE's are IN the rulebook! POE's are issued by the NFHS Rules Committee and they are issued to give officials guidance as to how they want certain rules called. POE's are not issued in newsletters. POE's can be found right after Rule 10 in every rulebook. Whatever is written in a POE is regarded as being a legal ruling of the NFHS rulesmakers.

It's true, it's true......

I know that you probably won't believe me, so how about this? Phone around and see if you can find a real, live high school official who actually owns an NFHS rulebook. Do NOT try to find one in your rec leagues. They don't use them there. If you are lucky enough to find a real, live high school official who owns an NFHS rule book, ask them if they will open the book and show you what a POE actually looks like. Please don't try to find the POE's yourself though. You have to go to work in the morning.

Good luck!

Boy, old people sure get cranky! But it was great for a laugh!;)

I've seen JR cranky, this isn't even warming up to cranky ;)

No, what's pure and simple is your thin skin. If you give a bench a technical for that, maybe you should be ref'ing rec ball. You must be a women's official.

IMHO, that does not rise to the level of unsporting behavior. If you shoot an airball and the bench says airball, that's a fact! If they go on an on with it, tell them to stop. If the F/T shooter has another shot coming, the bench can not say anything while he is shooting. However, if he misses a 2nd time and the bench says airball, I'm putting the ball in play. We're going the other way.

It's a good thing your opinion only counts when you're working your rec games.

Oh, gee, I don't know if I'm ready for that. That sounds dangerous and stuff.
I'm not allowing players on the court to do it, and I'm not allowing the bench to do it. The fans can do all they want. Like I said, though, go ahead and ignore it if your intramural assigner wants you to. You might just get that "college" championship game you've been dreaming about. You know, the one between the I Tappa Keggas and the Delta Delta Deltas.