Missed FT Violation - FYI
 

Had a close G V last night and a strange thing caught our eye. 30 years experience on the crew we all missed this one. Sharing.

As ball presented to a free-throw shooter, she would set her "toe "outside the line and slowly drag it back behind the line, set up and shoot without violation - all with the ball in her hand. Happened twice and did not effect outcome of the game.

This is a violation per Rule 9 ART. 7 . . . The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free-throw line which is farther from the basket or the free-throw semicircle line.

We missed that this applies to preshot routines too.

When shooter gets the ball they should already be inside the semi-circle and stay there.

I would be unlikely to call it. Don't be a plumber.

i agree ignore it

I hate when the shooter backs out of the circle after the first shot. Some of them call for the ball before they re-enter the circle not realizing it would be a violation for them to catch it out there. I usually gives these players somer sort of impatient non-verbal as I wait to toss them the ball.

Basically, I agree. What would you do if the opposing coach was pointedly letting you know that he knows the rule?

this is where i would ask the coach if he saw the new Rocky. And while he is confused I make my escape

I'd warn her that what she was doing was illegal (similar to checking the lane lines for violations before bouncing the ball to the shooter) and, if she persisted, I'd call the violation.

Give him/her a piece of gum from my stash and walk away.

Seriously, I'd say that nobody's gaining an advantage and then get rated down :D

I agree. If you don't say anything to her, the next ref team may just call it and she's going to be awfully confused as to the ruling. And, if after warning her you don't call it, then she's not learning anything.

This gets my vote for post of the day!

I also agree. There are far too many cases where rules have been written (such as this one) and referees, who are there to administer these rules, choose to ignore things they don't agree with, don't feel causes a disadvantage, or for some other strange reason other than not seeing it or not knowing the rule, choose not to call.

Here's a good example - A violates the throwin on the baseline after a made basket by team B. No press, no one except a teammate within a mile, and therefore, no "advantage" gained or lost. Ignore it? I think not.

The rules are there - and our job is to keep the players safe and adminitster those rules - not rewrite them as we see fit based on what we "think" should be called.

First time, smile.

Second time, tell him to knock it off.

a-d-m-i-n-i-s-t-e-r

Sorry - that happens when you are typing on your phone and miss a key or get an extra one. The substance of the message I wrote is a bit more important than the misspelling of one word.

Agreed, but we must also call by the intent of the rule. Since the intent isn't always known, it becomes a tough line to walk.

In the OP, I think the intent is to prevent (a) the running / jumping layup / dunk and (b) the easy rebound by the shooter. Since neither of those things is happening during the pre-shot ritual described, I would be unlikely to call it.

I suggest using your keyboard to type instead of your phone.:D

I could not ignore it above elementary levels.
I would find it "bothersome" and ask the player to stop doing that.

But I have always said that you have to be careful to not read into the "intent" of the rulemakers, since we have seen major problems with our constitution when we have battles between literal interpretations and trying to figure the intent of those rules.

My opinion - if the rule says this... do this. End of story. Otherwise, why have rules? If it wasn't something that needed to be addressed, it would not have been put in there. The rulemakers are not perfect - look at the Technical foul for going out of bounds changing back to a violation, because everyone felt it was too strict. However, some of these rules have been around forever, and some have been points of emphasis because too many people choose NOT to administer them, leading to a degradation of the game.

No, a preshot ritual which involves putting a foot outside the line before shooting probably doesn't gain an advantage. But I guarantee the first time you call it, it will make the player adjust their play to within the rules, or at least begin to do so, and isn't that our job? Keep the players safe, and administer the rules.

(and yes, I spell-checked!)

You are wise beyond your years.

You deserve better than the Lions.:D

The high school my son played for had a JV girl who would make a little practice shot immediately above her - to practice her form, I guess - before attempting the actual free throw. She got away with it for a couple of games. I was surprised it wasn't called earlier. Although she wasn't trying to trick anyone, it was definitely, for lack of a better term, "disconcerting".

From the rules book: "Therefore, it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation."

It's a conundrum. Sometimes I say "apply what's written", sometimes I say "apply the intent." In this example, I choose the latter. :shrug:

I don't understand.... How was that a violation????:confused:

Zooch- I guess that would depend on if she had the ball for the "practice"

I dunno.
Is a trial "shot" that different from tossing the ball a foot or two with a backward spin before grabbing and shooting ? ...Or, for that matter, from merely bouncing the ball once or twice ?

...Hangin' with Zooch.

Dunno...if she does it the same every time, it's legal imo.

???
So A1 steps up to the line, you flip her the ball, she takes a couple practice "Shots" straight up in the air, and we let that go?

As long as it's not a "fake," yes.

I would agree with this also - it's not a violation by rule, or common sense (if no trickery was involved - then it is a violation for both reasons - but that isn't what the OP said).

If it's part of her normal routine and she's not getting any kind of advantage out of it, why wouldn't we?

There's no rule against it.

What if one of the 6 players lined up for the free-throw does the same thing as the shooter in the OP? Steps on the line and slides their foot back behind the line to get just as close as they can? Does not affect the play. Would this be a lane violation?

Not trying to drag this on....but.....

9-4 "The free thrower shall not fake a try,..."

Some one mentioned flipping the ball with 2 hands with backspin and the ball comes back to the shooter. This is part of his/her routine. Flipping the ball in the air mimicking a "practice" shot is part of a routine....etc.

That's fine. I can live with that.

Why then, bother to have "fake" in the rule book? In NF, the try and all the restrictions do not end until the ball hits ring or backboard anyways.

A shooter can always just say, "What? Are you a mind reader?* That was just part of my routine to pump the ball towards the ring without letting go. It loosens up my shirt sleeves."

*see all previous post re: try vs. pass:)

A little OT, but can someone explain to me why girls along the lane place one foot on the floor regularly and the other foot up on one toe like that is giving them a head start on getting into the lane? Besides looking dumb, it doesn't do anything. 1745 and counting.

Coach, most officials know the difference between faking a try and going through a set FT routine. Seriously. It ain't that hard.

The rule was changed a few years back (maybe 10 or so) making the players wait for the ball to hit before they entered the lane. Before that, a shooter's fake could easily draw the defense into the lane since they could enter on the release. My guess is they decided not to remove the wording about the fake being a violation for whatever reason.

Where's the smiley face? That wasn't 10 years ago.

When was it? It had to be within a few years of '96-97. Right? Right?

Mick tells me a sign of getting older is that 10 years ago aint as long as it used to be.

;)

Well, Mick is wise beyond my years. ;)

Yes, that too. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/tr...smiley-018.gif

8 years ago, I signed U.P. here; Padgett was already spewing wisdom.
Not that long ago.

Good philosophical question. Always thought this was a dichotomy, myself. On the free-thrower "over-toeing" the line, most officials in our area would let it slide, or maybe just make mention of to the free-thrower afterward. But if a guy lining up on the lane accidently steps in right after the free-thrower has the ball at his disposal, and then steps back...officials were expected to blow the violation. Never understood the difference myself...yet I knew what we were expected to call.

My theory is that it's the same. Before I call this violation on either one, I'm going to tell them to knock it off.