The Official Forum - foul count

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)

- Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)

- - foul count (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/3072-foul-count.html)

Re: We have nothing to do with the foul count!!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
If a team is going to the basket, and their opponent is settling for jump shots, who do you think is going to have more fouls? If you have a team that presses, and a team that stays back in a zone, who do you think might have more fouls?

We cannot, and should not every try to "even up" fouls. The style of play dictates fouls, not necessarily what we call and how often.

Very well said!

Quote:

[i]
If you are a good official, you should not care what the coaches think.

Oooops, Can't totally agree here. In the sense of diplomacy and game management, you need to understand where the coach is coming from so you can give the most diplomatic response to his "complaining."

Quote:

[i]
What the coaches think should be the last thing on your mind. If you are doing your job 50% of the time you are going to be right, and 50% of the time you are going to be wrong in someone's eyes. Coaches usually are only thinking of what you call against them, not what you call against the other team. They already think we are crooks by favoring one team. Why confirm their thinking by "looking for stuff to call." My job is not to be their friend or their crony. I have a job to do, and that is to call the game the same for both teams. If they do not adjust, then they need to lose anyway. The more you worry about me, the more you will lose. Just that simple.

Again, I agree here.

Overall, a nice posting Mr. Rutledge.

Re: Re: We have nothing to do with the foul count!!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by williebfree
[B]

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
B]

Do not misuderstand what I mean by that statement. I am not REALLY saying that you should not care ever what coaches think. But understand that in the heat of the the battle, coaches think we all are screwing them, especially when they are losing. And yes for game management you need to be aware what coaches are saying and what they are complaing about. Doing so can avoid future problems. I just think that when they start complaining in the first quarter that they have 5 fouls and the other team has 1, we need to tune that out. Because of momentum and future events, this will change really, really quick. I have had games where one team had all the momentum and loses it by turning the ball over and not taking care of the ball or making bad shots and decisions. And the foul count was not in their favor.

Basically how far are we going to take a concern for foul count? Fouls can be 5 to 10, and the 5 had all shooting fouls. While the 10 were only non-shooting fouls (except for the bonus of course). That means Team A that had five shooting fouls could have a potential of 10 Free Throws, while Team B with 10 non-shooting fouls would only have 8 if they made all the front-end of the 1 and 1 shots. Now tell me, who has the advantage then? And what if team A wins by 1? Does it really, really matter then?

Peace

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
Interesting points, and I can't say I disagree with any of them...however, the reality of the situation is that if an official wants to "move up", then foul count will matter... when doing college games, the evaluator tracks the foul count, how many you call from each position and how many on each team...when the evaluator asks "The foul count in the first half was 11-3. Why?", and I say all the things that Mark posted, I won't be working for that conference very long...

This is exactly what is wrong with our profession. No, I don't mean your post, but that there is an evaluation system based on not rocking the boat. I guess that once upon a time, a bunch of officials were in a situation where they really worked "at the pleasure of the coaches and A.D.s" Because of that, they developed this theory of how to call a game where one substantive objective of their calls was to not piss anyone off, so they would continue to get assigned. This theory filtered down into a system of evaluation where this concept is taught and rewarded.

While I understand their point, the time for this thinking is long past. Guys - it's a seller's market out there. There is such a shortage of officials all over the country that we are now in a position to "do the right thing", i.e.: call the game fairly and evenly without almost no regard for the feelings of coaches (note I said almost ).

After all, what are the schools going to do? Go out and get a completely different set of officials? They can't - because there aren't any anymore.

If we all stick to our guns and call games properly according to the rules and not the political correctness of the situation, then eventually the system will change and the game will be all the better for it. But - it's got to start somewhere.

"Coach, I don't count them, I just call them".

Bob

I have heard and still hear this comment. We are not there to "even things out". Call them as you see them!!!!!!!