think about this

[Jeremy40]

I was just reading the paper, and i saw all these pictures and articles about our new war with osama bin laden. It really made me think that we are truly lucky to be citizens of the United States of America. Somewhere out across the sea there are men with guns, and men with bombs blowing up those men with guns. And somewhere in this world guys like us still care about the rules of basketball, and we don't have to worry about the rules of engagement for war. So gentlemen, I ask you with all sincerity...the next time you throw on your whistle think about the soldiers protecting us, so that we can continue to care about the great game of basketball.

thanks
jeremy

[mick]

I think about it a lot.
My son just graduated.
He is your age.
My niece and her husband are "somewhere" on a couple ships.
Oh, yeah... I think about it.
Most of us do.

mick

[Just Curious]

Broken Arrow, Oklahoma School officials removed "God Bless America" signs from schools in fear that someone might be offended.

Channel 12 News in Long Island, New York, orders flags removed from the newsroom and red, white, and blue ribbons removed from the lapels of reporters. Why? Management did not want to appear biased and felt that our nations flag might give the appearance that "they lean one way or another".

Berkeley, California bans U.S. Flags from being is played on city fire trucks because they didn't want to offend anyone in the community.

In an "act of tolerance" the head of the public library at Florida Gulf Coast University ordered all "Proud to be an American" signs removed so as to not offend international students.

I, for one, am quite disturbed by these actions of so-called American citizens; and I am tired of this nation worrying about whether or not we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on September 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled in New York and Washington D.C. when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. In fact, our country's population is almost entirely comprised of descendants of immigrants; however, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some native Americans, need to understand.

First of all, it is not our responsibility to continually try not to offend you in any way. This idea of America being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language, and our own lifestyle. This culture, called the "American Way" has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. Our forefathers fought, bled, and died at places such as Bunker Hill, Antietam, San Juan, Iwo Jima, Normandy, Korea, Vietnam.

We speak English, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society - learn our language! "In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some off-the-wall, Christian, Right Wing, political slogan- it is our national motto. It is engraved in stone in the House of Representatives in our Capitol and it is printed on our currency.

We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation; and this is clearly documented throughout our history. If it is appropriate for our motto to be inscribed in the halls of our highest level of Government, then it is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.

God is in our pledge, our National Anthem, nearly every patriotic song, and in our founding documents. We honor His birth, death, and resurrection as holidays, and we turn to Him in prayer in times of crisis. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture and we are proud to have Him.

We are proud of our heritage and those who have so honorably defended our freedoms. We celebrate Independence Day, Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and Flag Day. We have parades, picnics, and barbecues where we proudly wave our flag. As an American, I have the right to wave my flag, sing my national anthem, quote my national motto, and cite my pledge whenever and wherever I choose. If the Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

The American culture is our way of life, our heritage, and we are proud of it. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. We are Americans, like it or not, this is our country, our land, and our lifestyle.

Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion about our government, culture, or society, and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, the right to leave.

Barry Loudermilk

If you agree, pass this onto other Americans!!
It is time to take a stand!!

[Kelvin green]

Proud to have served the past 22 years and will continue to serve

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Just Curious
It is time to take a stand!!

Yes, it is. It is time to take a stand against the racist and bigoted crap quoted by you in that post. It would take an entire book to disect piece by piece all that is wrong with the thinking (and I'm being generous with that word) that went into it's composition.

I am always the first to jump up and rail against people on this board engaging in personal attacks against other participants, but I consider your post a personal attack upon me, so that is why I am responding.

First, the assertion that this country was founded on "Christian principles" would be news to Thomas Jefferson, who was adamant on the theory of separation of church and state. In fact, our founders felt so strong about that one point that they made it the cornerstone of our entire constitution. BTW - men and women of many non-Christian faiths (including some of my relatives), and also atheists, have fought and died for this country. And don't tell me to leave - I was born here and this is my country as much as it is yours.

Second, don't confuse my position with those that are saying we should not use military force against terrorism, or that displays of patriotism are a violation of civil rights and/or offensive to people. There probably is no one on this board more in favor of not negotiating with terrorists than me. By definition, you cannot negotiate with them, since the key component of negotiation is compromise, and extremists are prohibited from engaging in compromise by the little voices in their heads. We must eradicate terrorists before they eradicate us. There is no alternative.

Third, I actually agree with one other thing in your post, but not for the reason you quote. I do believe that English should not only be the official language of our country, but of the world. This position is usually considered racist, but my reason is just the opposite. Over 95% of the scientific, medical and agricultural information in the world exists in English. No other language even comes close. If we want to share this information with third world countries and help them help themselves climb out of poverty, the quickest and most efficient way to do that is for them to learn English. Now, this may sound like a simplistic and unrealistic proposal to a complex problem, but until the producers of Star Trek make their universal translators available to the general public, this is what it's going to take.

Fourth, I hope this is the last time I am goaded into a serious political dialogue on this board. I would much rather stick to basketball.

BTW - I have a flag patch on my jersey.

[rgaudreau]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
[

Over 95% of the scientific, medical and agricultural information in the world exists in English. No other language even comes close. [/QUOTE]

Does that mean you`d agree to changing your measuring system to metric?

I can`t wait to see you american's trying to convert inches to centimeters and miles to kilometers.

Ren... the canadian guy.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by rgaudreau
to changing your measuring system to metric?

I can`t wait to see you american's trying to convert inches to centimeters and miles to kilometers.

Ren... the canadian guy.

Converting inches to centimeters might be a big help on a dating video.

BTW - we capitalize American (and Canadian) down here.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Just Curious
"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some off-the-wall, Christian, Right Wing, political slogan- it is our national motto. It is engraved in stone in the House of Representatives in our Capitol and it is printed on our currency.

We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation; and this is clearly documented throughout our history.

Oh yeah - I almost forgot. The guy who wrote this obviously doesn't study history, either. This motto was officially adopted during the Eisenhower administration in the 1950s as a panacea during the "red scare" to reinforce the concept that the communists are atheists. It really was a "feel good" event. BTW - if that motto isn't a "Christian" motto as he claims, why does he then go on to give Christianity as the reason Congress adopted it?

OK - I'll stop now (probably).

[Brad]

First, the assertion that this country was founded on "Christian principles" would be news to Thomas Jefferson, who was adamant on the theory of separation of church and state. In fact, our founders felt so strong about that one point that they made it the cornerstone of our entire constitution.

It would take a political discussion for us to disagree Mark!

Actually, the phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution. Do you know where the phrase originated? You've got the author right...

Also, stating that this country was founded on Christian principles is not contradictory to stating that there is a separation of church and state.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

First, the assertion that this country was founded on "Christian principles" would be news to Thomas Jefferson, who was adamant on the theory of separation of church and state. In fact, our founders felt so strong about that one point that they made it the cornerstone of our entire constitution.

Actually, Mark, it is quite the opposite. While Jefferson was adamant on the seperation of church and state, he did not at mean that religion and faith should not be a part of the state matters. It's sad that this principle is so distorted in today's culture and politics. This country was settled by people who wanted the choice to practice christianity as they believed it, and not as the state dictated it. In England at the time, there was a single "official" religion: either Roman Catholic or Church of England, depending on who was King at the time. They were not allowed to practice any other faith than the one declared by the King. When the constitution was written, it was made such that the government would have no say in what religion people could practice. It did not, however, prohibit the government nor the public organizations from incorporating religious elements into practices. Still to this day, many government bodies have formal prayers (Congress, for example) as part of their regular proceedings. I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who established or supported many of these traditions of incorporating prayer in goverentment functions. He frequently refered to religious themes in his speeces.

The founding fathers were all very religious individuals but and did incorporate religion into government matters. However, they didn't want a government body telling the citizenry that they couldn't be Lutheran, Catholic, Methodist, etc.

Fourth, I hope this is the last time I am goaded into a serious political dialogue on this board. I would much rather stick to basketball.

Waiting for your reply... ;-)

[Brad]

We may not have declared an "official language", but you must know English in order to become an American citizen (assuming that you are not born here).

Seems "official" enough for me.

[JoeT]

Originally posted by Brad
We may not have declared an "official language", but you must know English in order to become an American citizen (assuming that you are not born here).

Seems "official" enough for me.

Dang you're quick!

Sorry, I just deleted my original post (recalling that we don't have an official language) because I decided that this is probably not the right venue for political chat....

But since you brought it up...

We go through this every few years - English is not the official language; there is none. There are strong arguments on both sides of the issue, but the fact is that it isn't the official language. My contention is that this is not a mistake or an oversight.

Joe

[Brad]

Sorry, I just deleted my original post (recalling that we don't have an official language) because I decided that this is probably not the right venue for political chat....

Yeah -- you are right, but since the thread wasn't getting crazy I left it...

Plus, I wanted to reply to Mark and I didn't think that replying and then closing the thread would be fair!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Brad

Plus, I wanted to reply to Mark and I didn't think that replying and then closing the thread would be fair!

Thanks Brad. As I said above, it's strictly basketball from now on.

BTW - re: fair. Whenever a coach or player complains about a call not being fair, I tell him, "this is basketball - you want fair, call Judge Judy."

[Richard Ogg]

I believe Jefferson's comment, in context, was to state that it is inappropriate for the state to fund a single religion. (We're talking money exclusively to a single belief, creating an unfair advantage.) Beyond that he supported integration of church and state, as implied by others. The current separation idea came from the US Supreme Court (in the early 1960s I believe, else late 1950s). It was a personal agenda by some justices.

And as someone else stated, our country was founded by men who were overwhelmingly (but not universally, at less than a handful of desenters) Christian.

Yes, its a basketball board. However, we are effectively at war and that is an extenuating circumstance. As long as most threads stay on basketball, and we don't mix the politics into basketball discussions, it doesn't seem too inappropriate. Brad, if it make sense, you could always add the note "Politics" to the subject of such threads. Then we can read what we want....