more patient?
 

I had my 2nd Varsity game last night. First quarter, half way through. My partners seem to not call obvious fouls right in front of them. This continues through til half time. Fans, coaches and players are getting frustrated with the lack control. We did not reach one and one in a girls game.

The fouls were 6 and 5 and I called about 3/4 of them. Halftime, were talking about the first half. My Ps are calm and collect. Saying good half. So I ask if they having anything for me, that they see I need to work on. (they're both 10 years and more, I'm only 3 years) My P says yeah. Try to be more patient with you whistle! Let them play through some of your fouls. Now I might be used to JV ball, but I cant believe that most V officials are like this.

It really affected my game in the second half. It was stuck in my head what he said. I think I blew my whistle about 3 times and 1 was a travel. I'm all for "get in, get done and get out!" BUT! The game was a complete disaster. People screaming all over the place FOUL this! FOUL that! And I got my whistle stuck in my throat! So as a First year Varsity ref, What the hell do you do in this sitch! If I start blowing my whistle all over the place, My Ps would be pissed and start talking and I would never get anymore V games. I Guess "GET IN, GET DONE AND GET OUT' ( I just read my Quote below as I was editing this! How Ironic!!!!!!!!)

Without seeing it is hard to say...
 

I can say without a doubt you may be right or you may ber wrong. :).. haha.. What I mean is I evaluate a lot of games and sometimes the newer ref is calling way too much, but there are also times when the vets want to get in and get out! My best suggestion would be to find a mentor in your association you can trust and confer with them on these two officials. Find someone who has your best interest and will tell it to you straight. This way you will know the scoop on these two refs. Be prepared you may also find you are blowing too many whistles, but at least you will know.

I can say without a doubt the fans yelling and screaming means nothing to me, they are ussually clueless!

Call your own game.

Most of the time I have found that the "surprise" calls generate most of the difficult moments in our officiating lives. And newer officials have a tendency to make "surprise" calls more often than seasoned veteran officials.

The trick to effective officiating isn't knowing when to call a foul or not, which way to go on out of bounds calls, etc. (These come with time and experience.)

It's about communication and game management. Being in the right place at the right time looking at the right things with the right knowlege and understanding....these lead to right decisions.

The old adage "similar plays should have similar outcomes" is a good rule of thumb for newer officials at any level. This type of consistency enables players and coaches to adjust to a level of officiating.

If as a newer official you find yourself "blowing" the whistle a lot more than the veteran officials with whom you are teamed, or you are "blowing" the whistle for things that the veteran officials are not blowing, these realizations should at least give you "pause" to consider whether or not there is officiating team consistency. "Similar plays should have similar outcomes."

Reading between the lines in the original post, (and I could be very wrong about this) where you talk about the numerous calls your partners are missing and how many you are getting, I would have an initial suspicion that you might be ball watching a pretty good bit. Unless the ball is in the paint or in a transition area between primary areas, I seldom know whether or not my partner "missed a call" or "got it right" because I'm not looking at what he or she is looking at. I trust them to take care of their calls, just as I hope they trust me to take care of my calls.

One other thing I came across a long time ago (and this relates to the "patient whistle" advice) is the advice to not be in as much of a hurry to blow the whistle. One camp clinician put it like this, a slow or patient whistle on just about anything but travelling and it will elevate the quality of our calls. He illustrated it like this: See the play and take a picture of it, develop it in your mind, then decide if you like it or don't like it. If you don't like, THEN blow the whistle. All of this is "thin sliced" within milliseconds, but it does suggest that their is a decision process instead of just a reaction to contact. This has helped me.

While there are always exceptions, a general rule is that the most active whistle in the game ought not be the newbie's.

First, forget about what those people "scream" about your calls. Disregard it, forget about it, ignore it, don't even hear it. "Foul this, foul that" should have absolutely no influence on how you call a particular game. They are ignorant about how officials call a game and about what constitutes a foul.

Second, if you can remember, what happened to the players that got fouled in the first half after you called the foul? Did the ball get away from the dribbler? Was the post player still able to catch the entry pass? After a slight bump, was player able to reach the loose ball?

What I'm getting at is that sometimes the contact is obvious, but it doesn't actually affect the play. In those situations, it helps to be "more patient" with your whistle, as your partners said. In the examples I mentioned above, if a dribbler's arm is obviously contacted by a defender, but the dribbler maintains control of the ball and maintains the path she was on, then I have no foul. If the post player receives a pass on the block and the defender comes "over the top" of her to try to make the steal, but the post player makes the catch and is still able to turn to the basket, then I have no foul. If the ball is loose on the floor and one player has a clear path to the ball, and an opponent bumps that player because she is also trying to get the ball, I have no foul if the first player continues her path and recovers the ball.

Without making judgments about you personally or your partners, I will say that where I officiate, officials who are on the "girls' board" call the game with less consideration of advantage/disadvantage. This seems to actually be expected by people watching the girls' games. But when officials from the "boys' board" work those girls games, there are noticably fewer whistles, because we try to see the whole play before making a call.

Isn't this where the advocates for not not calling traveling when there's no defensive pressure usually break in with a tsk-tsk?:)

Slow whistle on fouls. Call <b>most</b> violations(except 3 seconds & 10 seconds for a FT shooter) when they occur. Don't over-think the game.

Good points JR. When there's no defensive pressure, I'm usually real focused on pivot foot, etc....looking past to the defensive set up, anticipating offensive movement, etc.

And you are right not overthinking the game. Most violations need attention immediately (reaction?), while most fouls need some thought (process the decision and then respond).

In a D3 blowout yesterday afternoon, after the team that's 30+ ahead scored a basket midway through 2nd half and the team that's behind grabbed the ball for the throw in (no pressure, etc), the "thrower" went to toss the ball to the "catcher" but the catcher just kind of grabbed it before the "throw" happened. I "neglected to see the violation" but mentioned to the thrower a couple of steps onto the court that she needed to make sure and "throw the ball" and not just hand it in. She grinned broadly and said, "my bad. Thanks."

I understand what you all are saying and thanks for the advice. First the fans do not bother me or influence my calls in any way. I was just stating how the fans were reacting to our calls or not calls. Second, Rusty gilbert maybe right in that I'm looking at the ball to much and not my primary. But as T , or even C, everybody is crowded at the basket in girls game where am I supposed to look? I know its an experience thing and I was just looking for a few answers to help it along

You are saying that they aren't calling fouls -- could you put those calls in terms of advantage/disadvantage and tell me that they were passing on calls that definitely put the other team at a disadvantage?

One thing I notice in girls games is that everyone in the crowd and even many of the coaches think every little bump and every little bit of contact is a foul. It's not and I don't care how much they b!tch -- I'm calling the game the right way as ANYONE can call every little bit of contact.

Oh, we had a girls game the other night where we didn't hit the bonus in EITHER half. Why is that a big deal?

Also, a patient whistle is always good when it comes to fouls. You need a little extra time in many cases to judge advantage/disadvantage.

I certainly don't mind partners calling fouls - HOWEVER - I do get frustrated when they call "game interupters". Hold the whistle and make sure that defensive advantage has been gained. Of course protect the shooter but your partners were correct in that there is some contact that needs to be played through. The bottom line is that all contact is not a foul and going a step father all illegal contact it NOT a foul. Remember that a slow whistle is not a bad thing.

Why are you watching plays that are right in front of your partners? Shouldn't you be watching your own area?

Could you explain that a little more, please. I keep reading about "game interrupters" and how they're supposed to be such a bad thing, but I'm not really sure what a "game interrupter" really is. Doesn't every <b>single</b> whistle that any official blows, whether it was for a violation or a foul, <b>interrupt</b> the game? Is the concept that you should call <b>fewer</b> violations and fouls so as to not interrupt the game as much, with the goal of eventually reaching a point where you don't call <b>anything</b> and you <b>never</b> interupt the game?

No, the officials whistle does not ever interupt the game, or the flow of the game. The foul or violation does that. I just make sure that if I'm blowing my whistle, the game has really already been interupted. Does that make sense? Are you going to call every contact a foul? No. Where do you draw the line when B1 is tracking A1 with his left hand? When the flow of the play has been interrupted, right?

Our jobs are to call the obvious. Our jobs are not to call every minor infraction where it is hard to tell what was just called. If you get the big calls, then when you call the minor violation it is easier to believe those calls.

Now you say this is your second varsity game. I am going to guess that you like me and just about every other veteran here at one time was quick to call things and have now slowed down considerably since our first or second varsity game. I know I am much slower and do not call things that I would have called 5 years ago let alone what I would have called almost 10 years ago. I was not there so none of us know what you called or what your partner's called. I will just say that this is a common experience of younger officials breaking into varsity ball. If you want to stay there very much longer, I bet these guys know what it takes and it might be good advice to listen to them on some level.

Peace

1) No.

2) No, just the actual fouls. Incidental contact isn't a foul.

3) Yup, iow when someone gains an advantage.

None of this still doesn't change the fact that any time you blow your whistle, you're still interrupting the game. Why then are some whistles deemed to be "game interrupters" then and others aren't?:confused: As an official, we're supposed yto call fouls and violations, aren't we? Or are we supposed to only call <b>some</b> fouls and violations? And if so, what are the violations and fouls that we're supposed to call?

Please enlighten me, someone.

Bait Alert! Bait Alert! JR's fishing. :)

No, actually I'm not this time, Nevada. Everybody seems to be using this new catchphrase- "game interrupter"- but I still haven't seen a logical explanation of whatintheheck a "game interrupter" actually is that makes any kind of sense to me.

Every time you blow your whistle, you're interrupting the game. So....why are <b>some</b> whistles supposedly good and <b>other</b> whistles bad? And where can I read the list which tells me which ones are supposed to be "good" and which ones are supposed to be "bad"? Aren't violations <b>violations</b>? And if they aren't, why would anybody call anything? :confused: I know that you might use a l'il judgment on certain violations as to whether you're going to call them or not--i.e. 3 seconds, 10 seconds for the FT shooter, an elbow or punched ball with nobody near, etc. Are those the game interrupters that are being talked about, and does that mean that you should <b>never</b> call them? And....aren't fouls <b>fouls</b> too? And, again, if they aren't, then why would anybody call anything? :confused: I always thought that that you just decided whether you had a foul or incidental contact, and tried to be consistent in your judgment. Apparently that's completely wrong. Do you now have to decide <b>what</b> fouls should be called too? And <b>when</b> they should be called?

Again, could someone please enlighten me?

I was thinking the same thing.

The only problem with having a patient whistle is ball-watching is very popular. This leads to people calling out of their area. One thing I always talk about in the pregame is "ordinary, average, everyday, happens all the time, several times a game" drives to the hoop on the C's side of the basket. IMHO, those plays are not good double whistles and it happens too much. If an official is exercising a patient whistle, the lead could end up blowing the whistle on a play the C was going to pass on.

I think he term is meant to refer to whistles that do not need to be blown.

A totally random analogy

Let's say you are cutting the grass and your wife stops you to tell you she is going to the store to get you some prune juice. That is OK. She goes (to the store), comes back and stops you again to tell you she is going into the bathroom because she drank the last of your prune juice earlier. Wouldn't you think she could have went to the bathroom and let you continue cutting the grass. :D

No, every foul or whistle that is called is not a "game interrupter". A game can still flow in spite of violations and fouls. Of course there can be no "game interrupters" and still be no flow. I think that everyone would agree that a game that has a good flow to it is more enjoyable and easier to officiate. To give you a definition of a game interrupter would be impossible - it really depends on the game and the call.

By rule, you could probably have and and-1 on almost every play inside. Do you call them all? Gosh, I hope not. Most of those would probably fall into the category of a game interrupter. Illegal contact that doesn't effect speed, rhythm and balance could be considered a game interrupter. Again, you'll notice all of these COULD be game interrupters. There is not a standard definition - game situation, type of foul, position on the floor, score and the flow of the game all go into what can make a foul a game interrupter.

tomegun, I think you are basically correct - more succinct than I was. Hope that makes the situation even more cloudy! LOL

Q. What are you after you drink 10 bottles of french wine?

A. European (sound it out)

You are arguing over game flow?
 

Could some of this conversation be about more minutiae than any in recent history?

Peace

If arguing about game flow and what constitutes an interruptor is minutiae, I'd hate to see what is really important.

OMG, you think discussing game flow is minutiae? I actually think that flow is one of the more important things a young official can learn! We have a thread talking about holding a whistle in your hand rather than using a lanyard and you call THIS minutiae? What do you call that thread then?

I also think tomegun's thoughts about his wife interrupting him from cutting the grass and stopping on the way to the crapper very important!

Will you relax please. Lighten up Francis.

BTW, if you feel it is the most important thing, then you must be a rookie official. Of course it is nice to get some flow, but that does not mean it is my main concern. My concern is to be as consistent from start to finish. If you have to call 50 fouls, then you have to call 50 fouls. Flow is one of the last things on my mind because it largely has nothing to do with the officials. I cannot tell the players to throw the ball out of bounds, commit obvious violations or knock people on their behind every time a team has the ball.

Maybe flow is important to you, but it really is not that important to me.

BTW, I was joking with you. This is why ":D" was apart of the post.

Peace

I'm light - just that I've thought that about other threads and kept my mouth closed. I didn't say THE most important thing. One of the more important things. I say that because younger officials don't allow a game to flow because they feel the need to call every violation, every foul, every every thing they see. So, I do think it's important to learn what flow is in a game. A buddy of mine had a 3rd year in a varsity game the other night and the kid had a great 1st half - but managed to call 14 fouls in the 3rd qtr! Not that I think my buddy was right - but he did give the kid a barage of Fbombs during intermission and then in the car after the game. (Again, I'm not agreeing with his actions - just giving the facts.) That kid needed a lesson on game flow.

I'm not upset dude - I love this stuff. Not a rookie btw. FYI, it's Larry not Francis.:D

Why do you feel that 10 second violations by a FT shooter shouldn't be called? :confused:

I'm not saying they should never be called - Honestly? I've never even seen that called let alone called it myself. I do remember getting to 10 once and going back to 6 and the kid got the shot off before 10. I said something to the coach as I went by the next time and it wasn't a problem after that. I tend to give slow counts on 3-sec., 5-sec. inbounds and held ball, and 10 sec back court counts. I'm strict on the 5 and 10 sec. calls but I still count just a hair slow. On 3-sec. I tend to try to talk them out of the lane. If they won't listen, I'll bust 'em. Again, the FT violation is the one I've never seen called or called myself. Have you?

1) Oh.....OK.

2) Hmmmmm. I was always taught that contact that doesn't effect speed, rhythm and balance was supposed to be deemed as being <b>incidental</b> contact and <b>not</b> illegal contact.

Ah, wise words......

You must be a USC fan.

I agree completely. The players dictate the "flow". They also commit the "game interrupters". All the officials do is call 'em, hopefully equally and consistently.

I never said it shouldn't, I don't think. I'm saying that a lot of officials will give the FT shooter a little leeway on the count instead of calling it at the stroke of 10, or even warn the FT shooter. For the record, I'm one of them. Same concept as warnings for someone to get their butt outa the paint or to keep their elbows in.

Yabut......hasn't it been that way since Dr. Naismith hung up the peach basket? (I know, Nevada. His janitor actually hung it up. Just using a metaphor, is all ). You blow your whistle when you see a violation or you judge the contact was illegal and should be a foul. You gotta interrupt the game to do so too, no matter what. So.....what's the big deal with "game interrupters"(whatever they are)?

And, I wouldn't drink prune juice on a bet...and my wife cuts the grass. Does that mean that <b>I</b> have to go to the bathroom?

Gee, I'm getting <b>soooooo</b> confused......

PS- is a <b>stop sign</b> a "game interrupter"?:D