TO before throw-in violation?

[Ray_from_Mi]

Okay, thanks for the input. Now from another perspective. L has his whistle 1st, then me. I go see the L and tell him the request came before his whistle. I go to grant the TO and now the other coach is asking why the TO? the L's whistle came 1st. It would now look like I'm overiding my partner's call. The other coach now thinks I'm favoring the coach who called the TO after the violation which would have given him the ball in a close game with 45 ticks left. Is this why we're paid the big $?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Ray_from_Mi

Okay, thanks for the input. Now from another perspective. L has his whistle 1st, then me. I go see the L and tell him the request came before his whistle. I go to grant the TO and now the other coach is asking why the TO? the L's whistle came 1st. It would now look like I'm overiding my partner's call. The other coach now thinks I'm favoring the coach who called the TO after the violation which would have given him the ball in a close game with 45 ticks left. Is this why we're paid the big $?

"Coach, he made his request just before the 5 seconds ran out. I'd do the same for you."

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Ray_from_Mi

Okay, thanks for the input. Now from another perspective. L has his whistle 1st, then me. I go see the L and tell him the request came before his whistle. I go to grant the TO and now the other coach is asking why the TO? the L's whistle came 1st. It would now look like I'm overiding my partner's call. The other coach now thinks I'm favoring the coach who called the TO after the violation which would have given him the ball in a close game with 45 ticks left. Is this why we're paid the big $?

You tell the other coach that the TO request came before the violation, which whistle sounded first is of no consequence and that he would have been given the same consideration had it been him asking for a TO.

Don't make/not make a call because you're afraid of what a coach might say.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You tell the other coach that the TO request came before the violation, which whistle sounded first is of no consequence........

We're talking about 2 officials making 2 separate calls on opposite sides of the gym a half second apart.
If you don't go by the whistle, how did you decide which came first?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

We're talking about 2 officials making 2 separate calls on opposite sides of the gym a half second apart.
If you don't go by the whistle, how did you decide which came first?

Because I know if the TO request came before 5 or after 5. As should you. The whistle rarely makes the ball dead. Fundamentals.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Because I know if the TO request came before 5 or after 5. As should you. The whistle rarely makes the ball dead. Fundamentals.

The whistle didn't make the ball dead, the violation did, which came before the whistle. If you have your own count going, fine, but how could it possibly be perfectly coordinated with that of the official administering the throw-in?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The whistle didn't make the ball dead, the violation did, which came before the whistle. If you have your own count going, fine, but how could it possibly be perfectly coordinated with that of the official administering the throw-in?

Actually on a count the whistle can and should coincide almost exactly with the violation.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Actually on a count the whistle can and should coincide almost exactly with the violation.

Agreed. Your point being that this whistle can be anticipated so it should be closer to the actual time of the violation than the one made by the other official who had to see the request and then react. This is a good point, but we are still talking about a half a second......

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The whistle didn't make the ball dead, the violation did, which came before the whistle.

Yup.....and if you grant a TO before a violation, the whistle for the TO doesn't make the ball dead either. The granting of the TO did. That's why an OOB violation can't be made after the TO was granted and the ball became dead because of the granting.

Or do you wanna argue with yourself for a while now?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

.....the ball became dead because of the granting.

Or do you wanna argue with yourself for a while now?

Been arguing with myself for days, it seems. When the granting takes place
was/is the gray area for me, but I officially surrendered on the other thread.


Please, nobody have your kids make fun of my kids at school because of all this.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

We're talking about 2 officials making 2 separate calls on opposite sides of the gym a half second apart.
If you don't go by the whistle, how did you decide which came first?

You go and talk to the other official and decide which act took place first. See case book plays 2.6SitA&B. Same concept exactly.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You go and talk to the other official and decide which act took place first.

Agreed. I don't understand what Rich is saying that he knows whether the request was before or after 5. Even after conferring with partner, it could be difficult to decide.