Double Personal

[budjones05]

If I may add, we called fouls on the same play but he called it on the team a and I called it on team b...He was watching my zone, but we talked about it and decided to give double personals

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by budjones05

If I may add, we called fouls on the same play but he called it on the team a and I called it on team b...He was watching my zone, but we talked about it and decided to give double personals

If you have a double whistle on a play in your primary, you should generally take the foul.

[SmokeEater]

Would shot clock reset on a double foul? I got two posts knocking against on each other for position. I tell them to take it easy,... one move and BANG they each lean into one another with their shoulders like a couple of football blockers. I got em both.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Lotto

If you have a double whistle on a play in your primary, you should generally take the foul.

Do you have a rule cite that says the other offiical's call is ignored if the foul is not in his area?


budjones05, if you both had whistles on the same play and you had fopuls on opponents, then it is a double foul. POI. Play ball.

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Would shot clock reset on a double foul?

No, play resumes at POI.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Do you have a rule cite that says the other offiical's call is ignored if the foul is not in his area?

budjones05, if you both had whistles on the same play and you had fopuls on opponents, then it is a double foul. POI. Play ball.

That's called cooperation between partners, working as a team, trusting your partner, whatever. Double whistles can happen, but only one official goes to report. At least, this is what we are taught here. In a charge/block situation, it is important that the official calling the charge does not "punch" immediately, when realizing that the other official has a foul on the defense. Then only the official with the primary responsibility punches, if necessary, and goes to report the foul. It takes a fraction of a second, if the officials have made a good pregame, to silently agree on who has the primary responsibility.

In some rare situations, it could be necessary that the "non-primary" official goes to confer with the "primary" official; for example, when calling a foul which happened before the contact called by the partner. Judging differently one and the same contact is "not a good thing", IMO.

Ciao

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

That's called cooperation between partners, working as a team, trusting your partner, whatever. Double whistles can happen, but only one official goes to report. At least, this is what we are taught here. In a charge/block situation, it is important that the official calling the charge does not "punch" immediately, when realizing that the other official has a foul on the defense. Then only the official with the primary responsibility punches, if necessary, and goes to report the foul. It takes a fraction of a second, if the officials have made a good pregame, to silently agree on who has the primary responsibility.

In some rare situations, it could be necessary that the "non-primary" official goes to confer with the "primary" official; for example, when calling a foul which happened before the contact called by the partner. Judging differently one and the same contact is "not a good thing", IMO.

Ciao

Where is here?

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Where is here?

Well, the nick should have told you.

Italy, Fiba rules. Which of course allow that two officials call different things on the same contact; but this doesn't mean that the two officials have done a good job.

Ciao

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Do you have a rule cite that says the other offiical's call is ignored if the foul is not in his area?


budjones05, if you both had whistles on the same play and you had fopuls on opponents, then it is a double foul. POI. Play ball.

I'm sorry that my post made you sad.

I also never said that the other official's call is ignored if the foul is not in his area.

What I was citing is not a rule (but of course you know that), but is rather the mechanics that we use here in NY girl's HS basketball. The same mechanics are used at the college level (NCAA women's), except when a play originates in one official's primary and moves towards the basket. In that case, the official in whose primary the play starts takes the play all the way to the basket and will generally take the foul.

Please note the use of the word generally in this post and in the previous post. If you and I have a double whistle and the foul is in your primary, I will generally let you take the foul. However, if I see something that I think you may have missed, I'll come and tell you and then let you make the final call. And if we have a double whistle with a fist and a palm, or with two preliminary signals that are different, then we'll get together and decide what we have (which might, in fact, be a double foul), at which point you will take whatever call to the table.

I hope you're less sad now.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Lotto

I'm sorry that my post made you sad.

I also never said that the other official's call is ignored if the foul is not in his area.

What I was citing is not a rule (but of course you know that), but is rather the mechanics that we use here in NY girl's HS basketball. The same mechanics are used at the college level (NCAA women's), except when a play originates in one official's primary and moves towards the basket. In that case, the official in whose primary the play starts takes the play all the way to the basket and will generally take the foul.

Please note the use of the word generally in this post and in the previous post. If you and I have a double whistle and the foul is in your primary, I will generally let you take the foul. However, if I see something that I think you may have missed, I'll come and tell you and then let you make the final call. And if we have a double whistle with a fist and a palm, or with two preliminary signals that are different, then we'll get together and decide what we have (which might, in fact, be a double foul), at which point you will take whatever call to the table.

I hope you're less sad now.

Using or recommending NCAAW mechanics for HS games makes me sad.

But this being my 4,000th post makes me happy!

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Using or recommending NCAAW mechanics for HS games makes me sad.

As I said above, these are the state-approved mechanics for HS girls basketball in NY. They happen to be similar in this case to NCAAW mechanics. (NY uses NCAAW rules for girls HS ball; the mechanics are also patterned to some extent after NCAAW mechanics.)

So I use HS mechanics for my HS games. How 'bout that?

[Adam]

To me, it seems more likely for a blarge to be a legitimate double foul than for two knuckleheads jockeying down in the post.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Lotto

As I said above, these are the state-approved mechanics for HS girls basketball in NY. They happen to be similar in this case to NCAAW mechanics. (NY uses NCAAW rules for girls HS ball; the mechanics are also patterned to some extent after NCAAW mechanics.)

So I use HS mechanics for my HS games. How 'bout that?

You have to do what is done in your area. I think that it is unfortunate that you have to use NCAA rules for your HS girls games, but that's the way it is. (Of course, I would like to see the NCAA and NFHS rules merged and become the same for both levels of play. However, that is just a fantasy.)

Now I am confused about exactly what you folks do back there. Could you provide some more detail?
1. Do you use straight NCAAW rules for these games or a hybrid of those and NFHS?
2. Same question for your mechanics. Although you have indicated that these are not done by the NCAAW book.

Here's why I ask:

Originally Posted by Lotto

And if we have a double whistle with a fist and a palm, or with two preliminary signals that are different, then we'll get together and decide what we have (which might, in fact, be a double foul), at which point you will take whatever call to the table.

Under NFHS this would be a double foul. The two officials are not permitted to come together and decide upon only one call.
Under NCAAW, the two officials are to get together and decide upon a single call. It is my understanding that a double foul is not permissible in this case.

So which way do you do it in NY?

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You have to do what is done in your area. I think that it is unfortunate that you have to use NCAA rules for your HS girls games, but that's the way it is. (Of course, I would like to see the NCAA and NFHS rules merged and become the same for both levels of play. However, that is just a fantasy.)

Now I am confused about exactly what you folks do back there. Could you provide some more detail?
1. Do you use straight NCAAW rules for these games or a hybrid of those and NFHS?
2. Same question for your mechanics. Although you have indicated that these are not done by the NCAAW book.

Here's why I ask:

Under NFHS this would be a double foul. The two officials are not permitted to come together and decide upon only one call.
Under NCAAW, the two officials are to get together and decide upon a single call. It is my understanding that a double foul is not permissible in this case.

So which way do you do it in NY?

We use NCAAW rules with a few small modifications. The mechanics are given to us by the state.

The details can be found here: http://www.nysgboa.com/

If your fantasy is to have HS and college rules be the same, why is it unfortunate that that's almost exactly what we do here in NY on the girls side?