In your primary??
 

I'm curious about everyones feelings about calling violations/fouls in your partner's primary. The thread about the travel call got me thinking about this. From reading these threads it appears that there are several people who feel it is wrong and get downright pi55ed when it happens. Some have even said there is no way they would call something in their partner's primary even if they knew the partner missed it.
Frankly I disagree with this position. I obviously don't advocate ball watching and realize it is imperative to good officiating to maintain off-ball coverage, but one of the general principles outlined in the NFHS Officials Manual states:

Cooperation: Each official must give full cooperation to coworkers and to the assistant officials. Neither official is limited to calling fouls or violations in their own area of the court. Each official should call fouls wherever they occur and be prepared to help the other official at all times.

So what's the general consensus here?:confused:

Why would you think there is one? :)

My opinion: There's a difference between "oh, my" and "Oh my God". Get the latter, leave the former.

I should rephrase that, because you're right, there will never be a consensus.

So what is everyones opinion?? :p

Stay in your primary unless you see an elephant in your partners primary - even then you need to 110% sure it is an elephant before you go get in your partners area.

I went and got one last night and I am sure it is going to turn out to only be Hippo when I look at it on film - I am going to see the defender flop - but the angle I had across the lane from the slot the offensive player pushed off I gave the lead the chance then I blew it (literally) - was it a foul yes - was it a game interupter that I should have passed on - yes.

So be very very careful - you are hunting elephants.

Please tell me you didn't just do that!

Most veterans will realize that there are times when you have to call what you have to call. When someone talks about getting calls right, like this thread, IMO they are ballwatching and want validation for that practice. Most games do not require calling out of your area just like most games do not include a false double flagrant technical or other plays that are rare.
Two questions for the OP:
1. What level do you currently call?
2. How many times do you call across the paint during a game?

I don't ask those questions to put you on the spot. I ask because, if you are working two-man JV games (this is just what I believe) you can relax a little because you have bigger primaries with more dual areas and you shouldn't be worried about all of this anyway. If you are working three-man and you call across the lane several times a game (again what I believe) you should probably be across the lane and/or you are a ball watcher.

Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy strikes again! My bad, even the best slip up sometimes! :)

I missed that one! ;)

In the two man game, you can get into trouble looking into the lane and calling fouls. Worked with a guy last year who did that a few times during the game, double whistle, both had foul on same person. Never ended up being a problem, but a blarge could come up where the play should have been L's. Could also have foul on two different players. Should you call a multiple foul then, even when T was out of his primary and L had the play?

The same thing can happen in a three man game and should be part of the pregame. Awareness can work a lot of this out. I think us high school officials really need to work on our awareness to keep certain situations from happening.

We high school officials....

When Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy slips up, he has to be held to account.

Dang it! Doh!

.....it appears that there are several people who feel it is wrong and get downright pi55ed when it happens.

It doesn't bother me if a partner makes a call in my area. Unless it's really wrong.

Also, I had a guy in a pre-game once say that under no circumstances was I supposed to call anything in his area. And you could tell he meant it. He kind of scared me. : > ) We weren't one minute into the game and I was at trail. There was an obvious travel by A1 in my partners primary and I had a view as I was looking nearby and I knew he might have been blocked out. But I left it alone. I was at trail and standing right in front of coach B. Coach B let me have it with both barrels. After that I didn't care what my partner had said. I didn't care about what he said because suddenly I no longer cared if I ever worked with the guy again.

I call HS JV through D III college and AAU in the off season - this was a varsity HS 3 man crew - two D III officials and a junior college official - this call comes on a secondary break - with one match up in my primary and it was a secondary defender (from my primary match up) who steped in to try and take the charge as the offensive player drove to the hoop.

I think Bob has it right with oh my, and how did you not see THAT! Except in transition and when the ball is on the baseline opposite the lead, I work really hard to make sure I'm not looking at the ball (as lead), so I usually only have a vague feeling that something was missed.

I'm much more likely to get the feeling my partner's calling violations too quickly. For example, last week I had a partner I would swear was calling traveling for lifting the pivot foot. And indeed, he called a traveling violation 5 feet in front of me from across court during an interuppted dribble!

I've had some recent experience with this on the court, and commented here earlier this week. Maybe I'm one of those you think are really upset when it happens to me. Well, I was upset not really that the calls were in my primary, but that the calls were wrong, I clearly saw the play, and it happened many times.

Calling out of your primary, and having your primary called by others, is going to happen. After all, we have primary and secondary coverage areas. There are no prohibited areas. It only bothers me when it is clear that my partner is never off-ball, or that he whistles a call I got a great look at, and I passed on it.

I'm not going to take a call out of primary unless I know that when we get back to the locker room my partner says, "Thanks for getting that one for me". If it's not a good angle for me, or I question it, no way do I whistle out of primary.

So is it official? Have we finally declared a winner of the vaunted position of Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy?

I'm currently only working 8th grade games (2 official) as I'm new to this.

I work very hard not to ball watch and stay focused on my primary areas.

I only ask the question because what I've read on these forums by some posters directly compared to what is stated in the officials manual. Just curious as to what the overall opinion is. I want to do it right.

Well, to some extent, everyone's correct. Does that clear it up for you? :)

It has been proven that when an official calls outside their area, they are wrong way more than half the time. So when you ball-watch, or make a call that is outside your primary area, there's a real good chance you will be wrong.

However, there's an art to watching your area, but being aware of everything else. Has it happened to you yet where you're intent on the players in the lane, blow the whistle to call that 3-second violation on the post player, only to realize the ball just went through the basket on a 3-pt. shot? You were so intent on your area that you were not aware that a shot was in the air, and your count should've ended. You still need to have full-court awareness, while being focused on your primary. So there are a few times where that awareness will allow you see those "oh my god" plays that perhaps your partner went brain-dead on, and let you come in to help. But I also agree with tomegun in that "getting it right" is code for some officials that means "I'm going to watch on-ball and get all those calls my partner misses". "Getting it right" in this case is getting it wrong more times than not.

Start with what is in the manual and pregame the rest.

Sounds like a plan. Thanks :)

I follow Bob's rule of thumb also - with the addition of the non-basketball play idea...IOW, in my pre-game I tell the crew that if anyone sees a non-basketball play anywhere on the court - go get it. I don't care whose primary it's in, if it has no business on the basketball court, take care of it right now.

If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve.

My thoughts on this are similar to Bob's. My biggest fear when working with a ball-watcher is that there's going to be a trainwreck of a screen set off ball in his primary and we're not going to have a whistle.
The first step towards not ball-watching for me was training myself not to blow the whistle on those plays. The fact remains that my partner is there for a reason, and if I don't let her officiate her own area, I may as well go solo. If partner wants to pass on that call, let her.

Last year, boys jr. high, team A in transition, I was lead, out front of the play.
A didn't have numbers, so they pulled it out. A1 dribbled out to the 3 pt. line, near the baseline, then picked up his dribble. B1 stepped up to pressure him, and took a swipe at the ball. This is probably 5 or 6 feet from me. No other players were in between, I had a clear view. I had nothing. Partner whistled a foul from near the division line. My philosophy, which I shared with partner between quarters: If you make that call from there and you're right, it makes us look bad, and if you make that call from there and you're wrong, it is bad beyond my comprehension.

I struggled with this question earlier on, and though it is still a work-in-progress, I have learned that it is best to stay in your primary. Words like trust your partner are very important. That goes both ways. If you are looking to move up and get better games, you don't come out of your primary, never.

I say this because it is best to condition and discipline yourself not to do this. Once you are condition, it is easier to pass on it and you don't slip and call something that you shouldn't. Ex: I'm Lead and ball goes OOB on sideline right next to me. Beep, this way before my partner, the trail could react. I felt like an idiot because the sideline belongs to the Trail. I apologize to my partner which by BTW, is something you definitely want to do.

Hopefully, a miss call by your partner that you see, doesn't determine the outcome of a game. With that being said, there are some things you can do short of the contest being over, to help prevent this in the game. At halftime, talk to your partner/s and ask; "what did you see on this play?" Let them know in a very polite way, we need to get air in the whistle on that one. If your partner call one in front of you, tell them in a very nice way that you where passing on it to let them know you saw it, and you don't have to call in my area. Say this over and over at halftime. Trust your partners! Trust your partners! Along that same line, please don't say, stay out of my area! That is offensive and does not help the situation.

Finally, you don't ever want to get in a habit of calling in your partners area because you never know who's watching. You never know! Assignors and evaluators add a lot of value to an official who stays in his primary and doesn't watch the ball all over the court. Also, if your partners are struggling, try to help them out by encouraging them because in order for you to have a successful game, you need them to have a good game.

Hope that helps...