Kicking myself this morning

[Junker]

I'm just venting a little, but last night I should have ran the home varisty girls coach that we had. He was a pain in the rear before we even had him on the bench and got worse as the night went on. Here's the story, I'll try to keep it short, but like I said, I'm a little frustrated that I didn't run him.

JV/V girls double header at a school I've worked once before and had a great night. Things were rolling along, both JV coaches were a little chippy, but nothing that really needed to be addressed. At halftime, my partners tell me that the head varsity coach, who's standing in the corner, is complaining about the way they are calling the game. I tell them that we need to warn him and have him removed if he continues. Second half starts and mid-way through the 3rd a home player is trapped and doing everything she could possibly do wrong with the ball, eventually it ends up behind her head, I call a jump, and the H player goes to the floor hurt. I beckon the JV coach out and before she can attend to her player, she proceeds to complain about how "horrible" it was that her player could get knocked to the ground without a foul. I call that easy T. A little later, I call a block on a H player and she turns and throws her hands up right in my face, another easy T. A few minutes later, I end up over by the varsity coach who is on the bench during a dead ball. He asks me, "Bad hair day?" And I reply, "No, I was just addressing unsportsmanlike conduct that was happening on the floor." He proceeds to complain about the way we're calling the game so I reminded him nicely I thought, that he was now on the bench as an assistant and we would not be listening to him for the duration of the game. The JV coach came out and apologized for her actions and her player between games. Nice gesture, but I told her it was just part of the game sometimes, unfortunately.

So, the Varsity coach is on us from the tip. Admittedly we gave him way too much rope. I didn't really want to be the one to call the 3rd T of the night, but late in the 3rd, I'd had enough and I told my partners as much. I told them that I was going to try to stay away from him for the remainder of the game as much as possible. About a minute later he gets his T from one of my partners. I rotate over to get him on the bench and such and he calmly tells me he thinks we're doing a bad job. I respond, "Coach, you can think whatever you like, but from now on I'd suggest you don't voice that opinion." and leave. We got through the rest of the night.

Later, I found that the guy leads the league in T's every season (no kidding ). I wish I would have ran him when he complained about our bad job after his first T. I feel bad that any other crew is going to have to go in and put up with him when he acts that way. Maybe a suspension would have made at least a bit of a point with him. So, I'm kicking myself today. I think I handled it OK, but I really feel like I left one out there.

[OHBBREF]

It does sound like you left one out there -
But you also say you feel you handled it okay!

My question is this where were your partners all night?

You gave out two in the first game, late in the game one of your partners had to give one after you walked away where was the third guy?

this sounds like everyone could have had one for the evening I think sometimes you need to spread the wealth amoungst the crew -especially when you have a guy who leads the league in "T's". It is just time to bolster your stats.

[Junker]

The 2 in the first game were both clearly mine. The coach and player were right in my face. The one in the varsity game was one of my partners. I blew it by not running him while I was getting him on the bench. He's just whiner and his team is not very good. Maybe those go together?

[tomegun]

I don't agree at all when someone says, "Where were your partners." Many times one official is in a position to call multiple technical fouls; that is just the way it is. Similarly, we don't try to spread out common fouls evenly so technical fouls shouldn't be any different when they happen during different times of the game.
I think your only mistake is one of my pet peeves. You had too much dialogue with the coach after your partner gave him a T. You could have simply told him he must remain seated and then showed him your backside. What makes the dialogue worse is the fact that it was the second half and you didn't have to be all the way down there by him anyway. To add to the whole situation, you know you had wanted to T the coach all night and even though you didn't call the T felt the same way the calling official did. If you would have told him he had to sit and taken a position half way between the sideline and center circle in the front court the coach would have had to act like a jerk to communicate with you. Then, whack away!

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Junker

He's just whiner and his team is not very good. Maybe those go together?

Do you think so?

Not being there I can not tell you right or wrong - reading your post - and adding prior bad acts (first game issues) I probably Whack him on the way to the bench.

I see the first two as yours - but I do not see that during both games you were the only one that the coaches and players went after (I do not get the impression that you s@#k as an official) so my comment still stands where were your partners all night long?

one of them needed to step up to the plate and "take one for the crew so to speak"

[Adam]

Jeff, do you need me to fly out there and handle your coaches?

By the way, which school?

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

...I see the first two as yours - but I do not see that during both games you were the only one that the coaches and players went after (I do not get the impression that you s@#k as an official) so my comment still stands where were your partners all night long?

one of them needed to step up to the plate and "take one for the crew so to speak"

Now you are saying to spread the T's out evenly over two totally different games? Puh Lease!

[OHBBREF]

A number of years ago I was working a game with a first year D1 official (now works Con USA A10 and I think Big east), the coach for one team had been riding us pretty hard from the tip but nothing completely out of line to get him for. The ball is being inbounded by this official as the trail in the back court I am the slot right in front of this coaches bench awaiting the inbound and the ref yells up the floor to me "Next time he opens his mouth to complain - you Toss him" loud enough for everyone in the gym to hear.

Coach sat down and coached his team the rest of the night and we had a productive evening.


Not necessarily recomended but it was effective that night.

[OHBBREF]

No that is not what I am saying -
I am saying that apparently they were either spending the whole night on Junkers back in both games - or the other two officials have a no spine or a high tolerance for getting ridden by coaches all night.

First time that coach starts in he gets warned that he is done officiating for the night and told my crew that that was the case - then there is no reason not to whack the fool if he keeps it up and anyone can do it.

Coaches and players have to adapt to how we officiate we do not adapt to how they complain.

[tomegun]

OK, so Junker was the official who beckoned the coach onto the floor. How were the other two officials going to be right beside him to hear what the coach said unless the coach yelled it? Even if the coach yelled, he was right there and handled it.
Junker called a blocking foul and the player, who he was nearest to, throws up her hands right in his face. He does the right thing and gives a T.
The varsity coach is on the crew from the tip and they gave him too much rope.
What do any of the three situations have in common where his partners shoudl have gave one of the first two technical fouls? How did the first two technicals have to do with the third since they were in a different game?

JR, you're an assigner. Would you have had a problem with Junker calling all three of these technical fouls?

[Junker]

I agree that we all gave the varsity coach too much rope. I should gotten him in the first half, but because of the previous game I didnt (see the name of the tread ). We did pregame that I didn't want to have to be the one to get him. I'm really glad one of them finally stepped in and whacked him, although it was a little too late. My partners do a great job, but one likes to talk to the coaches a little more than the other 2. I'm trying to find a good way to address this in our converstations. Friday night I work with 2 really good, experienced officials and I might pick their brains on how to bring it up. I'm in kind of a delicate place. I was solo and they were a 2 man crew that brought me on. We have a great schedule for this year and I think our stock is rising with assignors so the crew is working well. This is just a hurdle that we need to get over. I'm sure there are alot of crews that go through this. Adam, I emailed you the school on your yahoo address. I didn't think that would be the best info to post.

[OHBBREF]

Okay once again - I see Junker with the first two T's no problem they were his all the way - no argument there -
The varsity coach started his line of Crap in the JV game they were prepared to warn him or have him removed in the first half - and Junker did warn him about his conduct on the bench the second half - so it isn't going to take a whole lot for him to get a stop sign or warning about his crap in the Varsity game -(he was on us from the opening tip) What I am saying is that as a crew they gave him way too much rope - I personally do not care who whacked him, Junker or his partner could have gotten him twice back to back - over all it would have been better for the crew if he got whacked twice - that it was by a couple of different people (which means if Junker gives him the second one is okay) - but I would have thought that since Junker had already steped up and said he was predisposed to giving this guy one - that the third official would have been the one to walk him to the bench? (avoid the Teddy Valentine/ Bobby Knight situation) -
I just think they gave him way too much rope he needed to be stopped early in the game and either warned or whacked then we might not be discussing who could or should have given the second T

[Junker]

You hit it on the head. The only reason I didn't get him in the second game was that I didn't want to look like I was predisposed to the T. I like to use the T only to make the game better, and I felt that had I thrown another on this particular night, it would have made an already bad night into a terrible one. I'm glad one of my partners got him once, but after the game and thinking about it on the way home, I think we did the officials in this area a disservice by not sending him to the showers. Like I said, I'm kicking myself today.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

JR, you're an assigner. Would you have had a problem with Junker calling all three of these technical fouls?

Technical fouls are usually called because a coach/player/whoever commits an unsporting act. What difference does it make who makes the call when that person does commit an unsporting act. You're penalizing the act, is all. If a coach wants to keep yapping at you after you called a "T"on him, then why should it be up to anyone else to take care of your bidness? You gave out the right advice imo, Tom, when you said to turn your back and walk away after you nailed the coach. If they still want to continue, then it's on them imo- not any of the officials on the floor.

Officials don't throw coaches or players. They throw themselves. All the officials are doing is reacting to their actions, not looking to nail someone.

Personally, I think that officials not calling technical fouls when warranted is a much greater problem than actually calling technical fouls these days. And from the looks of both the NFHS and NCAA POE's lately, I don't seem to be alone. And I say that recognizing that there are certainly different tolerance levels involved when it comes to comparing the high school and college game too. Hell, even the NBA thinks that it's finally gone too far and they want something done about it.

Jmo, Tom.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Junker

You hit it on the head. The only reason I didn't get him in the second game was that I didn't want to look like I was predisposed to the T. I like to use the T only to make the game better....

Wouldn't the game be better if you put his yappy azz in the parking lot too?

Again, I think that the act should be penalized. A lot of these other factors just aren't relevant imo. If the act deserves a "T", then call it and don't worry about it.