That's just it, though - we're only correcting the timer's error.

The elimination of "lag time" means that we can go back and put time on the clock (if we have definite knowledge, of course); it does not mean that any of the rules regarding live ball/dead ball have changed.

No offense to the fine folks of District 3, but I'm waiting until I see this on the NFHS website or in an e-mail from my local assignor.

Yabut....you don't <b>KNOW</b> that the foul occurred at 0.4. You really don't have a clue <b>when</b> the foul actually occurred. Nobody does. That's why you can't correct anything. That's slso the whole point to date.

You know it occurred while time was still on the clock.

1) Give me a rules citation that states the horn sopunded illegally. And what do you mean "if the horn is what kills the clock"? I've given the rules citations that say exactly that numerous times to date in this thread.

2) I agree. And so far, nobody has been able to cite any <b>RULE</b> that says that horn and time expired illegally. That's exactly why you have to kill the shot.

So, are you saying that if you know how much time to put on, you'll put the time on and disallow the basket?

Right, Snaqs, I agree with that too. But that doesn't mean that you can do anything about it. You can't unfortunately, unless you know exactly how much time was left on the clock.

in such a close stich put .3 or .4 -- either way even nothing will change the outcome because of .1 seconds. it would be different if we had video replay to more accurately gauge the effects of .1 seconds but we do not so all we can go on is a very close estimation. I agree that the clock should stop with the whistle -- so in such a split of time you know its under 1 second and you should have an idea of whether its under .5 or not -- from there just massage it a bit :)

Not even worth a reply....

You do know that it did occur before the buzzer. If you don't know that, you don't need to be on the floor at all. How far before the buzzer shouldn't matter. The result of the shot should be the same. Whether you fix the clock or not is a different matter.

Here is the rule: 5-8

Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official" /><O:p></O:p>
ART. 1 . . . Signals:<O:p></O:p>
a. A foul.

If it doesn't stop in this case, it was allowed to run illegally and the horn that resulted was also not supposed to occur. I don't have the case book with me but there is a case that says the horn doesn't stop play if it sounds at an incorrect time.


By your interpretation, it seems you'd rule the ball dead if the timer pushes the horn button with 0.5 on the clock becasue the horn sounded or if the timer accidentially reset the clock to 0 before the shot was released.

The rule can't be such that it would be an advantage for the timer to be deliberately slow in the stopping of the clock....hoping the officials don't know how much time to put on the clock. If that were allowed, a home scorer could win the game for their team by manipulating the clock.

The result of the shot is the same. There are no rules extant that you can use to negate rules 6-7-6&7- and EXCEPTION(c).

You still can't change the facts that the horn went <b>before</b> the ball was in the air <b>and</b> you can't put time back on the clock.

1) It doesn't matter when you look up that case play or not. That horn has got absolutely nothing to do with the horn that ends a period. If you can't put time back up on the clock, then the horn ending the period did <b>not</b> sound at an incorrect time. Apples and kumquats.

2) Um, no, I'm not saying anything at all except commenting on exactly what the original post stated. I haven't commented on any other different situations and I don't plan to. This one is headache enough. And....please don't try to put words into <b>my</b> mouth to further <b>your</b> argument.:)

3) Again, I'm not giving you or anybody else my own personal like or dislike of this situation. I'm just commenting on it from a strict rules basis.....and I'm also wondering how I'd respond if a complaint came in from the <b>other</b> coach who had maybe lost a game because an official counted a basket and put time back on the clock without any rules basis to do so. You tell me....how would you answer that complaint, Camron? Maybe I'm wrong philosophically, but I always thought being "fair" went both ways.

Yes.

For the record, I actually prefer the interpretation put forth on the district 3 website, but I believe that it is not supported by rule.

Perhaps my favorite part of all the books is on page 10 in the rulebook.
The Intent and Purpose of the Rules. Among other things, it says ".....to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation."
I personally do not believe that 5-10-1 was written with the intent of chasing down tenths of a second, not even in a game ending situation.
Sports officiating is, and for the forseeable future will be, subject to the human element. (good thing, or we're all out of a job) The whistle blows, the timer hears it, the thumb flips a switch. How long does all this take?
I have no idea. But this is the normal sequence of events. This is the way it is supposed to be. The high school game as we know it is not designed in such a way that the clock stops instantaneously with the whistle.

5-10-1: The referee may correct an obvious mistake by the timer.......

Anything that involves .4 tenths of a seconds, (an arbitrary amount that was mentioned earlier) is not obvious. There was a foul on a try, but time expired before the release. So be it. Shoot the free throws. The basket doesn't count.

Nothing was "permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not intended by a rule."**


**The Intent and Purpose of the Rules (again)