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Zoochy Sun Dec 03, 2006 09:42pm

Free Throw
 
Has anyone call Disconcerting the Free Thrower (9-1-5)? If so, then what was the action that was worth calling the violation?

JugglingReferee Sun Dec 03, 2006 09:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy
Has anyone call Disconcerting the Free Thrower (9-1-5)? If so, then what was the action that was worth calling the violation?

Yup.

Unnecessary talking that started just as the player releases. Warning was given first, too.

tjones1 Sun Dec 03, 2006 09:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy
Has anyone call Disconcerting the Free Thrower (9-1-5)? If so, then what was the action that was worth calling the violation?

Yep, last year I called it. The opponent was in the top free throw lane and clapped his hands just before the shooter was getting ready to shoot.

Edit: Just to clairfy, it wasn't the "top" space. He was in the "top" legal space for the defense.

Nevadaref Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:17pm

Yes, and last season it was even a POE!

2005-06 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
...
2. Free Throws.
...
C. Disconcertion. Free-throw disconcertion must be carefully monitored. Of particular concern is when the free throw will become dead (first of two or first two of three). Defensive players often employ tactics which serve no other purpose than to disconcert the shooter during free throws ("boxing out" the free thrower off the free-throw line, waving arms, yelling instructions to teammates, etc.). Another increasing trend is opponents outside the arc saying things to the thrower. With team free-throw percentages hovering in the mid-60's on average, teams welcome a second chance free throw. They deserve it if disconcertion occurs and officials must call it.

TimTaylor Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:23am

Yep. Another common one in addition to those already mentioned is arms raised and rapidly wiggling hands or fingers.

Scrapper1 Mon Dec 04, 2006 08:11am

Yelling "BOX OUT" during the first of two free throws.

Squeaking sneakers directly behind the free throw shooter.

Junker Mon Dec 04, 2006 09:06am

I've talked to players about this, but I've never actually had to take care of it. Usually they knock it off after a conversation.

jritchie Mon Dec 04, 2006 09:47am

Can a player be disconcerted by a member of his/her own team? i know the answer is no, but seen it done the other night and was cracking up. Do you say anything to the team member that is doing this?
That is one of the questions in this years test too! :)

Nevadaref Mon Dec 04, 2006 01:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jritchie
Can a player be disconcerted by a member of his/her own team? i know the answer is no, but seen it done the other night and was cracking up. Do you say anything to the team member that is doing this?
That is one of the questions in this years test too! :)

He can an it is legal unless the official deems it to be an unsporting foul.

9-1-5 . . . No opponent shall disconcert the free thrower.

Adam Mon Dec 04, 2006 02:02pm

Or a coach yelling for a timeout while the opponent is shooting a freethrow.

Zoochy Mon Dec 04, 2006 02:29pm

Up to this point it seems that 4 have called a violation. Well, the other day I called the violation. While I had my (delay) hand out, I knew that I was going to catch grief from the coach if the free throw shooter missed. He did. Here is the play. Late in the close game both teams are shooting free throws. Team A is shooting a 2 shot foul. Team B is losing. I am the Trail (2 man game). B1 is in the last position near the shooter. As A1 gets the ball, B1 starts squeeking his shoes. 4 or 5 squeeks. It gets my attention. A1 makes the 1st throw. I am thinking.... deliberate or nervous??? He stops the squeeking while the ball is being retrieved. A1 gets the ball for the 2nd throw. B1 starts squeeking again. He doen't stop until A1 releases the ball. Free throw is missed. Tweet... violation. I go over to explain situation to Coach B. Quickly I explain that it is just like Clapping, Waving hands and Yelling "Box Out". His response.. "this is new to me". I walk away. I believe I made the right call. After the game I did not get much support from my partner.

Nevadaref Mon Dec 04, 2006 02:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy
Up to this point it seems that 4 have called a violation. Well, the other day I called the violation. While I had my (delay) hand out, I knew that I was going to catch grief from the coach if the free throw shooter missed. He did. Here is the play. Late in the close game both teams are shooting free throws. Team A is shooting a 2 shot foul. Team B is losing. I am the Trail (2 man game). B1 is in the last position near the shooter. As A1 gets the ball, B1 starts squeeking his shoes. 4 or 5 squeeks. It gets my attention. A1 makes the 1st throw. I am thinking.... deliberate or nervous??? He stops the squeeking while the ball is being retrieved. A1 gets the ball for the 2nd throw. B1 starts squeeking again. He doen't stop until A1 releases the ball. Free throw is missed. Tweet... violation. I go over to explain situation to Coach B. Quickly I explain that it is just like Clapping, Waving hands and Yelling "Box Out". His response.. "this is new to me". I walk away. I believe I made the right call. After the game I did not get much support from my partner.

Good call, partner! :)

Raymond Mon Dec 04, 2006 03:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy
Up to this point it seems that 4 have called a violation. Well, the other day I called the violation. While I had my (delay) hand out, I knew that I was going to catch grief from the coach if the free throw shooter missed. He did. Here is the play. Late in the close game both teams are shooting free throws. Team A is shooting a 2 shot foul. Team B is losing. I am the Trail (2 man game). B1 is in the last position near the shooter. As A1 gets the ball, B1 starts squeeking his shoes. 4 or 5 squeeks. It gets my attention. A1 makes the 1st throw. I am thinking.... deliberate or nervous??? He stops the squeeking while the ball is being retrieved. A1 gets the ball for the 2nd throw. B1 starts squeeking again. He doen't stop until A1 releases the ball. Free throw is missed. Tweet... violation. I go over to explain situation to Coach B. Quickly I explain that it is just like Clapping, Waving hands and Yelling "Box Out". His response.. "this is new to me". I walk away. I believe I made the right call. After the game I did not get much support from my partner.

Good call, but I think I would have said something to B1 after the 1st throw in hopes of preventing having to make a disconcertion call in the future.

OHBBREF Mon Dec 04, 2006 03:34pm

last weekend my partner called it in a DIII womens game.
Shooter was on the line to the left of center about three feet - player in the top spot on that side put her arms up and out toward the shooter and started to wave her hands clearly in the sight line.

Old School Mon Dec 04, 2006 04:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy
Has anyone call Disconcerting the Free Thrower (9-1-5)? If so, then what was the action that was worth calling the violation?

When the game is on the line, there is a lot of sh!t talking going on in the F/T lane. I have made it a practice now to get very close to the shooter in these tense situations, otherwise I can't hear it from my normal position. Big disadvangate if they can raddle the shooter, I'm mean it's on inside that lane. I'll tell you something else to look for, especially in a close game. Defense huddles in the lane, when they walk out, somebody bumps the F/T shooter on the line. There's a lot of stuff to watch here!

I even had a coach, first time I've ever seen this, but the coach had a fit after the technical he recieved and was yelling instructions to his players while we where shooting the F/T's, 1st half, so it's in front of his bench, which IMO intimidated younger high school F/T shooter. Can't let that happen either.

Jurassic Referee Mon Dec 04, 2006 04:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old School

I even had a coach, first time I've ever seen this, but the coach had a fit after the technical he recieved and was yelling instructions to his players while we where shooting the F/T's, 1st half, so it's in front of his bench, which IMO intimidated younger high school F/T shooter. Can't let that happen either.

Sooooooo......what did you do to the coach? And please cite the rule that allowed you to do whatever you did.

Old School Mon Dec 04, 2006 05:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Sooooooo......what did you do to the coach? And please cite the rule that allowed you to do whatever you did.

In this case, I did nothing because it was the first time and after some thought, I realize that was a disadvantage and something I need to be on guard for (protect the shooter). Some coaches are sneaky and they do things to see if they can get over, to see if you're paying attention. Since I never had that happen b4, I will be honest, I was caught off guard, sort of like the 911 attack, but my eyes are open now and I'm sharing the experienced.

You won't find that anywhere in the book JR, but then again, knowing you, maybe not!

Peace

Adam Mon Dec 04, 2006 05:19pm

You're comparing a basketball game, and a coach's tactic, to 9-11? :(

Jurassic Referee Mon Dec 04, 2006 06:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old School
In this case, I did nothing because it was the first time and after some thought, I realize that was a disadvantage and something I need to be on guard for (protect the shooter). Some coaches are sneaky and they do things to see if they can get over, to see if you're paying attention. Since I never had that happen b4, I will be honest, I was caught off guard, sort of like the 911 attack, but my eyes are open now and I'm sharing the experienced.

<font color = red>You won't find that anywhere in the book</font> JR, but then again, knowing you, maybe not!

Well, actually JMO, you will find language in the book to cover it. And there was a POE that told you what to do also.

Can you cite the NFHS rule and language re: disconcertion? There's a case play that might be relevant too. You never know; maybe it can be found in either or both of those.

I await your rules/casebook citations.

tjones1 Mon Dec 04, 2006 06:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
You're comparing a basketball game, and a coach's tactic, to 9-11? :(

I was thinking the exact same thing. Try again, nO<strike>ld</strike> School.

Raymond Tue Dec 05, 2006 08:21am

This is what I see whenever JMO, errr...Old School makes a contribution to the forum.

Quote:

This message is hidden because Old School is on your ignore list.

Scrapper1 Tue Dec 05, 2006 09:02am

Me, too, BadNews. I can't stand to read his garbage.

Old School Tue Dec 05, 2006 09:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Well, actually JMO, you will find language in the book to cover it. And there was a POE that told you what to do also.

Can you cite the NFHS rule and language re: disconcertion? There's a case play that might be relevant too. You never know; maybe it can be found in either or both of those.

I await your rules/casebook citations.

I don't know who this JMO character is, but I told you, didn't I. I knew you would find something, bookworm (JR).

PS: Don't kill the messenger.....

Jurassic Referee Tue Dec 05, 2006 09:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old School
I don't know who this JMO character is, but I told you, didn't I. I knew you would find something, bookworm (JR).

JMO is a make-believe official, just like you.

And if you were the proud owner of a rule book or case book, you might also have a shot at finding it too. But you <b>don't</b> have any books, so you <b>don't</b> have a shot.

Jurassic Referee Tue Dec 05, 2006 09:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
This is what I see whenever JMO, errr...Old School makes a contribution to the forum.

The problem is though, News, that we might get some newbies/rookies on here that might actually swallow some of his nonsense, not knowing any better. That's the <b>only</b> reason that I respond to him.


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