not strictly officiating, but.....

[Mark Padgett]

Once again, I am asking for your opinions on a basketball topic that is not strictly officiating-related. For years, our local rec youth league (I am on the board) has had restrictions on the type of defense allowed in lower grade levels. This year, we are considering keeping our no zone rule in 3rd grade, but moving our 4th grade program up to the same rules as 5th grade. That means that once the ball crosses the division line into the frontcourt, HS rules are played, including zones (ther is no backcourt allowed until the 4th Q, when NF rules apply full court).

Some of the board members, most of whom are coaches, make the statement that "man-to-man" is real defense, while zone is not. Others, including myself, feel zone actually forces kids to learn how to pass on offense and how to help on defense. I have seen kids who are forced to play man (at least at these very low grade levels) just give up on defense if they are beaten, since their man is no longer able to be defended by them.

The other factor is that we usually use the most inexperienced refs at these levels (that's another story) and if they are forced to pay attention to enforcing artificial rules on top of the standard NF rules, they miss a lot of contact and the games get fairly rough.

Frankly, I would like to get some opinions not on the merits of man vs. zone, but if you think teaching and allowing only man defense at early grades really is teaching a more fundamental type of ball or not.

Again, thanks loads in advance to my officiating brethren for helping me.

BTW - 6th through 8th plays straight NF in our program.

[Richard Ogg]

Mark, in our league we have no rule on defensive sets. I personally recommend to inexperienced coaches they stick with zone defenses. (I always used several different ones, and changed off each time down the court in 11-12 year olds.)

My reasoning is based on our rule of requiring a coach to play players. In fact, we do not allow substitutions except by the quarter. IOW, each team has 10 players and each player plays the entirety of 2 quarters. Given this rule, using man-to-man with the wrong match-ups on the court will destroy any resemblance of competition. So you play the can't-stop-a-rolling-ball player as a weakside guard on defense (and hope the forward can stop something).

If your league is organized to sort better players into a different division, the story would be very different. In our league we sort by age bracket, but otherwise balance all teams best we can. Everyone has a "star" and everyone has a "project".

For more details, click on the basketball at http://www.srbible.org/.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Richard Ogg


If your league is organized to sort better players into a different division, the story would be very different. In our league we sort by age bracket, but otherwise balance all teams best we can. Everyone has a "star" and everyone has a "project".

For more details, click on the basketball at http://www.srbible.org/.

We also have a "classic" division where the better players (5th and up) play in a competitive environment. However, there is no program like that around here for 3rd and 4th grade. At the rec level, all players are drafted onto teams to achieve a semblance of parity. Of course, the head coach and one asst. coach get their kids automatically on their teams, but all others are drafted, just like in the NBA (well, sort of). Usually, the coach's kids are the best players, but there is not a huge amount of difference in skill level between the players, although sometimes you get some kids who are really tall for their age.

Since the entire season comes within the school year (unlike baseball, for example), we sort by grade, not age. We have a rule that every kid who shows up for practice must play at least 50% of their games that week. The playing time can be staggered during the game, however. We restrict team size to 8 players to ensure lots of playing time for each kid. We have over 1200 kids in just the rec program, plus about 18 or 20 classic teams that play in a competitive league and also in tournaments almost every weekend during the season. The playing time rule does not apply in the classic program and those kids play straight NF rules regardless of grade level.

[Just Curious]

In our area, we have a least a half dozen elementary schools that feed 2 middle schools, that feed one high school.. The Varsity girls coach uses man (We refer to as babe to babe).
I coach man... While I don't particularly like zone, I feel that it's easier to teach zone after man has been learned. Whether there's merit or not remains to be seen in terms of which defense is better at this young age. We tend to loose more games during the regular season. But I guarantee you that for many years now, I have had twice as many of my girls on the varsity team then from the other programs.
Better girls??? No, not necessarily... It's just that they know what the high school coach wants when they walk onto that high school floor...
I guess I tend to look way ahead.... When I see our only high school program using man... and as a coach it's my job to prepare them for what's ahead.. This will be where my focus lies.. continuing success.

[Oz Referee]

Mark,

Here in Sydney we have a rule that states that in Under 12's there is no zone defence. This rule is not enforced by the referees, instead it is enforced by the court administrator. Basically how it works is at that the first instance of a zone being played, the court administrator will approach the referee at the first suitable moment, who will advise the coach to stop playing a zone. The second occurance is a Technical foul against the coach.

If a coach has a certain number of technical fouls in the season for illegal D (I think it is three) they will be suspended for a fixed number of games. The reasoning is that at this level, it is the responsibility of the coaches to enforce no zone, not the referees.

Although not perfect, this system does work. In the first 2 seasons of this rule, there was a least 1 T every second game. Now, (some 6 years later) I basically never see a team warned, let alone teched.

Personally, I believe that not allowing zones is a good idea. I have seen (and played with) too many people that have gone their entire lives just playing zone, and don't really know how to play man-to-man D. If you have a problem with players giving up once they are beat, I would suggest the problem lies with the player, and not the type of defence they are playing.

Best of luck,

[joemoore]

One of the reasons I see for disallowing the zone is that a team can double or triple team a player. In younger ages, kids have less ball handling skills and the game becomes all steals and breakways.