Buh-Bye!
 

For the answer to a recent thread asking what the signal for a flagrant personal foul is, please note the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2ZuIXI1VgM

Very good. Toward the end of the video the K-state guy with hair that looks like a weapon? If he pokes someone in the eye with one of those spikes he should be gone too!:eek:

With the ding-dong decision by the ejected Kansas state player to hit that kid and the ding-dong hairdo of the other Kansas state player it makes you wonder who their coach is now. Oh. Wait. It's Bob Huggins. The whole picture makes sense now

you know, it's interesting to see it from the different angles. At the beginning, it looks like some rough out of control play, but the replay from the angle of the calling ref, it really does look like a punch. Since the player didn't complain about the call, I expect it was more intentional than not, but I just noticed that it did look very different from one angle than another.

Yeah, my first thought too was that haircut <b>had</b> to be some kind of "T". And if it <b>wasn't</b>, it sureashell <b>should</b> be.

Maybe you could send him out of the game for being dangerous--poke somebody's eye out or sumthin'?

Why was Colon given a technical here, the foul was clearly a flagrant personal foul because the ball was live. Am I missing something here?

Oh yeah, he is out of there. Question though (NFHS), do the officials have to report that someone was tossed or is it up to the coach?

That's completely a local issue afaik. Each state/league usually has it's own procedure to follow on all ejections.

In Missouri, the official (s) must file a report.

A bit theatrical, IMHO. In FIBA there is a proper signal for a disqualifying foul (personal or technical): raise both arms with the closed fist.

I remember a similar "signal" by Earl Strom when he ejected Boston Celtic's coach Bill Fitch (seen on TV so many years ago).

Ciao

The announcers did a nice job: "It's a technical," "It's intentional," and finally, "It's flagrant."

I don't know NCAA, but I'm fairly confident that only one of those is correct.

In our case Rob, yes we have to call Nelson immediately after the game. I've had to do that once in my short career.

What does it matter? It's a flagrant foul, two shots and the ball, amd he's ejected.

Was contact made? If not, it's a T.

Some would say that all fighting is a T, even during a live ball with contact (and I'm not trying to start that discussion again).

Up to two of them could be correct.

I totally agree, way over the top. He embarassed the player. He only needed to run up there to make sure there was no retaliation. He actually caught the retaliation, he missed the first foul that lead to this altercation.

Just go over to the table and indicate # is ejected for throwing a punch. Notify the coach, notify partners, determine who's shooting the technical.

I see what you mean. And not just any two. ;)

I'm going to send this to all of the officials that ball watch! :D If this gets missed then you are going to have a brawl.

That player gets the coward of the year award for hitting someone with their back turned.

When a kid does something so non-basketball and wrong as that he should get embarrassed imo. Also look at where the call is made. Way off the ball. How many fans, and for that matter the coaches, saw that. If he is going to toss the kid, he has to come in hard and sell the hell out of this call. I believe he did it just right. Plus he had the tape to validate him with the commissioner and his boss. All around good job if you ask me.

Oh, please. This is a pretty silly (and I'm being generous with language here) comment. He did what he needed to do (or thought he needed to do) to keep control of the game at that point.

Perhaps you've never been in a situation like that, but worrying about the potential embarrassment of a player who just tried to cold-cock someone is absurd.

Old School joined the forum in November and - by my informal count - now has about 45 pretty silly (and I am also being VERY generous with the language) comments...that's more than one "silly comment" per day. Almost as bad as that scrapper1 guy!!

to those officials that said

"its over the top" and "he embarassed a player" "and this happened because he missed the first foul" -- i say to these LO @#$@#$@#$ L

Lets adress that He missed the first foul -- which was a bump if this idiot doesnt go Evander Holifield no one would notice that bump because it was quite frankly nothing. thats an off ball foul I would pass on -- nothing serious really. And when does a bump with the hip call for a dome ringer in retaliation?

Secondly whether or not contact occured on the punch -- ITS AN EJECTION -- intent was there and there is no reason a player that throws a haymaker should remain the game -- EVER.

OVER the TOP -- This is a call you have to sell because most people didnt see it or might have missed it -- it happened rather matter of factly but the official did a great job of seeing it, recognizing it, and calling it. He made sure everyone knew what was happening and that he was on it and the white player (jersey color) didn't have to retaliate because it was dealt with ASAP. Great job. You can sit back and blow your whistle and make your T signal or whatever signal you want but it wont end there I guarantee it.

And the official DIDN'T embarass the player -- the player's cowardly act embarassed himself. this wasnt a case of the player doing something silly and the official making a huge deal about it. This is about a huge deal being made of a huge issue., and at the center is said player. Besides if that coach is worth his weight in feathers the least thing said player should be concerend about is embrassment by the official.

amazing how some could even mention that a thrown punch that misses could not lead to an ejection and that an official taking charge is over the top. JR take it away.

Deecee nailed it! If I had that clapping icon, I'd post it here.

You're nuts! This kid just took a cheap shot swing at an oppoent from behind and you worrying about embarassing him. **** him. He embarassed himself, his team, his coach, and his university!

Now now...no need to get snippy...(not that I disagree of course but we must try not to cut each other too deeply with our scalpel-like wit)

DeeCee, you need to check yourself here. I'm sure that little hip check didn't cause this player to do this. I'm sure there was something else that pushed this guys button that lead to this violent act. Good officials have to be aware of that too. There was probably a call missed earlier in the game and when you add in the hip check and all the other cheap stuff the player was doing and getting away with it. Then you get the violent reaction.

The NFL is taking steps to try and get the perpetrator first. You can see this by the fines that are being levied out to the person who didn't throw a punch. Hooray for the NFL, they get it.

I have no doubt in my mind that this player should be tossed, but I also strongly believe that players don't come to the gym looking to cold-cock somebody on the first bump. Let me tell you something. If a man that big is having a bad day, the absolute worse thing you want to do is run up on him and throw your arms out in a emphatic motion and say you are tossed! You might just push him over the edge. This guy backed down, thank goodness! I have seen guys like that that don't back down. This little pint size referee up in my face, I'm already kicked out the game, possibly now kicked off the team, I might as well make go out with bang. Now, what you gonna do?

We do not want to escalate the issue or the player and that's exactly what this referee action could have done, in my opinion. Tell the coach the player is ejected and for this reason. Let the coach tell him he's got to go to the locker room.

All I got to say to this is the tape don't lie. Oh, did we forget about that? You are over-the-top!

Peace

Puleeze. The player embarassed himself (and his team and his school). The ref did a great job of catching the off-ball action and jumped all over it. He was in a hurry to get over there and his mechanics reflected his rush to get over to the play. I commend the official. How can you find fault when he did such a great job? :confused:

Old School must be a great fisherman b/c he sure is reeling y'all in with his bait.

My first year officiating Varsity games, during warmups a kid took off his warmup pants to reveal some "cat in the hat" striped socks pulled up clear over his knees. When I inquired of my partner if they were legal or there was a T for this, his response was, "Only if you're planning to whack him for having bad taste."

I think the hairdo falls into that category.

the player looked a bit shocked almost like -- "wow he saw this -- shoot I dont know what to do I wasn't expecting the ref to see that. Oh well coach will kill me so I best get out of here ASAP."

And there are plenty of people out there with what I like to call "reality imbalance" -- you can all use this term as you like but send me a some kind of royalty when you do -- but it simply is that some people have the ability to overreact to certain situations because they cannot reasonably judge fair and reasonable retaliation (whether physical, emotional whatever it may be). This player threw his haymaker and continued running like nothing happened hoping the officials wouldnt notice. I guarantee if that player did anything to the ref he would be in jail on assault and battery charges and just when you think "oh well its as bad as it can be" it GETS WORSE. I think getting carted off the court in handcuffs or physically removed is just a bit worse than leaving on your own -- my 2cents.

"Hey home coach you see those 4 players brawling it out -- well I decided that I couldn't handle doing my job and ejecting him so I would like you to pass on to your 2 players involved -- oh wait make that 3 ummm nope 4 -- that they will be ejected and ummm yeah thank you."

"Hey visiting coach -- listen....huh?.......oh that's just a fight that could have been avoided if I had done my job but hey I don't want to get my little fingers wet so if you could at your convenience, or at as soon as #4 returns #12's eyeball if you could be a gem and have those 5 ummm no 4 players leave the gym please. I am sure they can continue this outside and not disrupt the game but coah please do that for me"

Yeah you tell the coach -- every ejection I have had which to date has been 0 -- would have gone like this -- *tweet* make my call and make sure everyone knows that player X has been ejected. Then after a few seconds when the dust settles let my partner know what just happened then inform the coach of the ejection and then the table -- then answer and of the coaches questions. But I guarantee in any ejection the FIRST PERSON to know other than myself will be THE PLAYER GETTING EJECTED. The explanation will go to the coach.

Deecee, See BadNews/M&M's post/picture. The guy that you're dealing with isn't an official. He posts for one reason only. It's that simple.

..ahem...cough...

Couple related links:

Colon Suspended by Big 12 - 1 game
http://cjonline.com/stories/113006/bre_luiscolon.shtml

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/recap?gid=200611290095
Game recap and box

http://www.your-own-mohawk-in-12-easy-steps.com
For those interested in new hair styles in Basketball :D

Ahh...yes, I do.

I have low self-esteem, so I crave all the credit possible. Thank you. :D

(Btw, if Cheech and I start a musical group, we can call it Cheech and the Snippettes. Or, is it Snippets?)

Hogwash!

I guarantee you that if this player would have cold-cock you, you would be riding out of there on your back! Career possibly over! Oh yea, he'll go out in handcuff's alright but I think you might be hurting a little more.

You ever wonder why the officials in the NBA didn't give Ben Wallace the you're out of here hand toss signal like this ref did here, after he clearly pushed Ron Artest in the famous Detriot brawl? Think about that a minute before you shoot off your smart mouth again. Maybe, just maybe the NBA knows a little about running up on a man twice your size that's been provoked. We'll deal with it at the table. Notify the coaches, which is proper procedure when a player has foul out of the game or ejected.

Not everyone deals with pressure the same.....

just for the record im 6'6" 210 -- and not the out of shape kind --

and a NBA shove is just a tech -- same thing in HS -- I would not eject a player for a shove unless it leads to a fight -- 2 players shove each other T em up end it move on. Detroit was a shove by Ben and a fight between Artest and the fans -- eject the fans and artest -- if artest retaliated like that towards ben (assuming HS) eject them both -- once again sometimes the retaliation far outweighs the inital action -- judge accordingly and punish accordingly. Shove from A1 to B1 and B1 decks A1 who falls back -- eject B1 T up A1 depending on the severity of shove.

And being a Cincinnati guy, I am laughing (a little) inside. A 24 point and 30 point loss, plus a player ejected, all before December...I guess the shine has worn off the "Little Apple" (manhattan, KS).:D

In regards to basketball, the shine was off the Little Apple after the departures of Mitch Richmond and Lon Kruger.

As a K-State alum, I can guarantee you, though, that K-State basketball fans have no doubt in Huggins' abilities as a coach. It's not gonna be a quick turn around, however, when the team is full of guys who are soft...and I mean SOFT.

This is the very mind thought that started the problem. Ben Wallace should have been ejected, no questions asked, just like Colon was. Ron, seeing that Ben had not been ejected became outraged because when he had done similar things in the past, he was ejected. He even stated this.

Let me get this straight, a shove by the biggest man on the court, that justs about separates your body parts is okay but a miss swing which looks like he could have been falling in that direction and you're tiptoeing to the tulips singing the you're out of here song. That's Interesting, hmmmmm......

And one who is stupid!

He will get them to play hard, I have no doubt. Expect great defense, but IMO, he's not a great game coach. And don't expect a great halfcourt offense. If he has a weekly "Bob Huggins" call-in radio show, don't expect any caller to get much respect. He is condescending to fans who call in to ask questions.

Do I sound like a Bob Huggins hater? I'm not; just a UC fan who got tired of the crap that came along with trying to win.

That's stupid comment. What are you, 12?

Those officials had much bigger problems than Ben Wallace that night.

I heard Ronnie Garrettson tell Rasheed Wallace, "WHACK! Get out!" I don't think Garrettson had any concerns about his safety.

AHHHHHHH LOL -- I know you cannot be serious because if you are you must really enjoy all the Junior High level games you have been doing because thats about where you should stay with your comments...

You have an inability to read -- I said depending on the serverity of the shove you punish accordingly -- if any body parts are being separated thats quite a shove IMO.

secondly you must be blind because you know youtube has a pause feature and you can look frame by frame -- if you think the defender might be falling down and didnt make any contact then well you should get your prescription checked -- me thinks its time to upgrade to actual magnifying glasses.

But you cannot be serious because if you are I would like to annoint you the Dan Quayle award for December 2006 -- I know its early but I am confident in my nomination.

D@mmit, he's keeping a tight grip on his trophy. We'll probably have to wait until April to give it to someone else.

It's not bait when every post is the same. It's just the SOS.

Wow! Did I hit a nerve?

Viewing it real time is a different story. In fact, the first 2 times I saw it, i did not see it from the angle shown. It was the second angle where the view was close to what the ref actually saw that drove it home for me and yes it was great call. I just think he over emphasize the moment. He got excited, we not suppose to get excited, remember. This ain't baseball either, there's no you're out of here mechanic. I think he should be fine for that so that others don't start doing things that are non-standard.

Just like you where confident that Ben Wallace foul was not that bad.

Simple question - what is the standard mechanic or procedure for an ejection?

One more simple question - do you officiate basketball?

I had the same thought. The official clearly gives the T signal.

It's a matter of getting the call right. It's true that the most important thing is that the action was observed and the offender was punished by being DQ'd, but there are other lesser factors which should be handled correctly as well.

For example, it makes a difference which player from the offended team may shoot the 2FTs and also the ensuing throw-in spot would be different.

Small potatoes when compared with the meat of the play, but we should strive to get the whole meal just right. :)

According to the Yahoo! Sports article, Taylor Harrison was the player who was punched. According to the box score, the foul was a technical (that may be the only way to input a flagrant foul into the computer), but more importantly, Jerome Randal took the FT's. Seems to me that this was not only signaled as a technical foul, but enforced as one, as well.

http://calbears.cstv.com/sports/m-ba...07/ksucal.html