Falling down with the ball
 

Okay, here's the sitch from my JH games last night. A1 dives for ball and catches it while airborne and then lands on the back side of his shoulder. I have generally wondered about this, leaning towards thinking it's a violation. However, I ended up letting it go last night.

Partner and I discussed it at the next quarter, and his take is that it is legal.

Thoughts?

If a rebounder catches the ball in the air, and then falls,(e.i. touch the floor with something besides hands/feet) I believe you'd call a travel without thinking about it. I think it's a similar situation.

I think the rule is if you are holding a live ball, and touch the floor with anything but your hands and/or feet, it is a travel. I guess the options are call time out real quick, or somehow start a dribble.

That is a travel.

The player would have to control the ball prior to leaving the floor on the 'dive" before it's a violation. If he/she gains control in flight, no violation.

4.44.5 Situation A: It is traveling if A1 falls to the floor:...(b) after being airborne to catch a pass or control a rebound.

If anyone has a copy of "Seven Deadly Sins of Officiating" published in Referee Magazine, they address this exact sitch. The player can land directly on his/her torso, and even slide without rolling over without a violation if possesion is gained after the player is airborne.

The case play cited by jdw addresses this situation exactly. Violation.

Given a choice, I'll accept the ruling from the Case Book before I accept the article in Referee magazine. If I tell the coach to go look it up in a magazine he'll laugh me out of the gym, but if I tell him that the play is directly out of the NFHS casebook he has nothing left to argue about.

If we're going to get nitpicky, this was neither a pass or a rebound. It was a loose ball. I have always read this to mean hitting the feet and then falling. Not sure the referee magazine article necessarily contradicts this.

So you are saying that a player can not legally dive for the ball and gain possession without it being a violation unless he/she defys gravity.

A player landing on their back and staying on their back is no different than a player landing on their feet and staying on their feet.

The rule you are emphasizing uses the word FALL. Falling requires that you be standing or upright first.:rolleyes:

No, they have to hit the ground, then hold the ball. Gravity is happy with this choice.

4-44-5 . . . A player holding the ball:
a. May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.

A player can legally dive for the ball anytime. If they get player control <b>before</b> they hit the floor, then it's a travel <b>when</b> they hit. If they get player control <b>after</b> they hit the floor, they can slide, finish rolling over if they were rolling over, etc. Case book plays 4.44.5SitA&B have good explanations.

Methinks that you should re-read the Referee reference. I'm sure that they wouldn't screw up a basic rule that badly.

Does this mean that it's legal to catch the ball airborne when it is not a pass or rebound?
I guess the first part of the case play covers this IMO it doesn't seem fair for A1 to dive for a ball and gain possession 2 inches from the ground parallel to the floor and be called for a traveling violation. This kid hustles his butt off by diving for the ball and he gets penalized for it. I guess there are other rules that are not exactly fair so I guess I will call it this way.

I happen to agree with you completely. Unfortunately, the rules disagree with what we'd prefer! :D

Well...
 

You haven't been reading Referee lately then. ;)

I would hate to call a travel on a kid who showed enough guts and hustle to get control of the ball in the air and then fell down. But that's what I'd do because that's what it is! You've got a travel my friend!

1) Its a travel
2) I hate the rule
3) Even though I hate the rule I call it
4) I have no problems telling a coach its a stupid rule but it has to be called that way
5) Maybe the coaches will get together and change the rule; until then see all of the above!

in FIBA, I've been tought(!) I havn't checked my book yet (havn't got it here).
1) it's NOT a travel (players are allowed to fall
2) good rule
3) it is a travel if the player in any way makes his situation better while he's on the floor (no movment, (s)he's not even allowed to sit up)