Preventative Officiating

[Man In Blue]

I think that this is the reason the NF went to POI rather than AP. I also agree that if you can talk the players out of a foul it is better.

[blindzebra]

The thing is that there are times where there isn't a first foul...most of the double fouls I have called have been where the two players are both moving to a spot, neither is there first, neither is entitled to it yet and bam they hit, usually at this point they will separate on their own or I'll say something like, "Easy, " but occasionally the sumo match will begin and they will bang each other again.

That is the time to call one.

If you know two players are going to screw up the game...and we all have had them...again a double is a great tool because A) it shows them you are watching and B) it puts both one foul closer to the bench, that much sooner.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think it was a little early in the morning for you. You really are reading waaaaaaaaaaaay too much into the statement.

Yeah, it is a little too early for you.

I did not use the term “ticky tack,” you did. A "cheap" foul in my terminology is a foul committed by a player that should not have taken place on the player's part. In other words the player committed a foul that was basically dumb and unnecessary. I hear a lot of coaches use this term and it is not a criticism about the officials rather than a criticism of the player for doing something they should not do.

It is not always about the NF. I do not work for the NF, but I do work for people that want certain things called and other things avoided. I think calling a double foul is more of a cop out because one of the players did something first. Work hard to get the first action or talk players out of behavior that might get a foul called on them. Also in my opinion we let the offensive player do just about anything and we do not call a thing on them. If you call a foul on an offensive player that pushed and held to keep the defender in a certain place, that sends a bigger message from my point of view.

Peace

Curious: what else does the NFHS say we should know that you have decided warrants little to no enforcement?

If all your years of officiating (and I know you referee a lot), you have never had a situation where a double foul was the right thing to do? Do you have these hawk eyes that can tell that one foul happened so little before another?

I think it's a cop out to not call a double when it's time for one. Learn when to use it, then use it. The players will adapt - both of them!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Curious: what else does the NFHS say we should know that you have decided warrants little to no enforcement?

The NF tells us what the rules are and often does not tell us what philosophies to use that apply in the real world. If you could tell me where exactly the NF does show what a double foul outside of the definition is. Anything in the S&I Book?

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

If all your years of officiating (and I know you referee a lot), you have never had a situation where a double foul was the right thing to do? Do you have these hawk eyes that can tell that one foul happened so little before another?

"BTW, I am not a huge fan of the double foul like I was early in my career. Penalize the right player, someone fouled first."

Did you read this statement? Apparently not. Also not sure what eagle eyes have to do with being able to concentrate on two players that are obviously fighting for position. I happen to work two games this past weekend where I had two 7 footers on the floor playing against each other. Not sure how bad your eye sight is, but it is easy to see two big guys like that as well as the many others that were 6'7 and above this entire weekend.

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I think it's a cop out to not call a double when it's time for one. Learn when to use it, then use it. The players will adapt - both of them!

Considering that double fouls are mostly a judgment call (outside of a blarge call for example), you have every right to call what you see fit. A few of the people that I have worked for and some of the camps I been to, did not want us to call double fouls as the norm. Now if that is what they like in your area, call them all the time if it makes you feel better. I have learned to watch off ball and see the first foul. Or if I miss the first foul or think I missed the first foul, I revert to the philosophy that I was told while going to camps. Either way, you do what you feel is best and I will do what I think works for me.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Curious: what else does the NFHS say we should know that you have decided warrants little to no enforcement?

The multiple foul.

[rainmaker]

There are a number of different issues here.

First of all, I think we all need to keep respecting the differences in our various associations and affiliations. The OP asked a question, then got several different answers some of whom specified a variety of authorities. If the OP will specify their affiliation, we can start to narrow down what would be an appropriate answer. Was the game FIBA? NFHS? NCAA-W or NCAA-M?

Okay, there aren't a lot of different issues, just the one.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

There are a number of different issues here.

First of all, I think we all need to keep respecting the differences in our various associations and affiliations. The OP asked a question, then got several different answers some of whom specified a variety of authorities. If the OP will specify their affiliation, we can start to narrow down what would be an appropriate answer. Was the game FIBA? NFHS? NCAA-W or NCAA-M?

...and the difference is what again...?

Whenever an interesting sitch is posted the first thing I think is "hmmm....how does that apply to the universe *I* live in?" After I figure that my next thought is "what's for lunch?".

I'm really not that interested in helping the poster figure out his own particular universe.

I know, I'm an incurious non-inclusive trog who refuses to accept the differences between us... :shrug:

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I know, I'm an incurious non-inclusive trog who refuses to accept the differences between us.

Well, I certainly respect you for that.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, I certainly respect you for that.

Boids of a fethah...