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BEAR42 Tue Nov 21, 2006 03:27pm

Have A ?
 
This situation came up in a game I officiated last night.
Team "A" is to inbound the ball after a time out. Team "A" also wants to sub in a player. The official score keeper notices the sub's number is not in the score book (her name in, wrong number listed). We assess a technical for the wrong number. My question is , does Team "A" retain possession or does Team "B" be awarded the ball?
This was a girls varsity basketball game(HIGH SCHOOL)(UIL)

Ed Maeder Tue Nov 21, 2006 03:32pm

After the shots are taken by Team B, Team B would be given the ball for a throw-in at the division line opposite the table.

Jurassic Referee Tue Nov 21, 2006 03:33pm

Team B gets 2 free throws and the ball at center for a throw-in for the penalty of the technical foul.

Who did you charge the 'T" to?

Larks Tue Nov 21, 2006 03:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEAR42
This situation came up in a game I officiated last night.
Team "A" is to inbound the ball after a time out. Team "A" also wants to sub in a player. The official score keeper notices the sub's number is not in the score book (her name in, wrong number listed). We assess a technical for the wrong number. My question is , does Team "A" retain possession or does Team "B" be awarded the ball?
This was a girls varsity basketball game(HIGH SCHOOL)(UIL)


Did the sub actually become a player before this was brought to your attention?

tjones1 Tue Nov 21, 2006 03:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Who did you charge the 'T" to?

I knew this question was coming....

M&M Guy Tue Nov 21, 2006 03:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larks
Did the sub actually become a player before this was brought to your attention?

This was the question I had.

BEAR42 Tue Nov 21, 2006 04:02pm

We assessed the technical to Team "A".

BEAR42 Tue Nov 21, 2006 04:13pm

Sub did come in to play.

M&M Guy Tue Nov 21, 2006 04:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEAR42
We assessed the technical to Team "A".

Are you saying you assessed a team T, or did you assess it to the player as well?

BEAR42 Tue Nov 21, 2006 04:20pm

She had not been in the game prior to being substituted at this point.

Adam Tue Nov 21, 2006 04:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larks
Did the sub actually become a player before this was brought to your attention?

Given that the ball had yet to be inbounded by team A following the dead ball during which Team A attempted the substitution; I think it's safe to say they caught it in time to assess the T. :)

All_Heart Tue Nov 21, 2006 04:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Given that the ball had yet to be inbounded by team A following the dead ball during which Team A attempted the substitution; I think it's safe to say they caught it in time to assess the T. :)

Are you saying if the player had been playing and the number was then found to be illegal, then the technical could not be called?

deecee Tue Nov 21, 2006 06:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by All_Heart
Are you saying if the player had been playing and the number was then found to be illegal, then the technical could not be called?


yes -- this is something that has to be addressed when it happens -- once it happens its to late to penalize.

like when a team has 6 players on the court -- then you see one player go and sit down and now you count and say "hey there were 6" to late. you have to assess this when the penatly occurs. smart coach will call a timeout ASAP and get his players into a huddle asap and get it fixed.

BEAR42 Tue Nov 21, 2006 06:47pm

The Player Had Not Been In The Game.

Camron Rust Tue Nov 21, 2006 06:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee
yes -- this is something that has to be addressed when it happens -- once it happens its to late to penalize.

like when a team has 6 players on the court -- then you see one player go and sit down and now you count and say "hey there were 6" to late. you have to assess this when the penatly occurs. smart coach will call a timeout ASAP and get his players into a huddle asap and get it fixed.

Incorrect. This is a book error, not an illegal number. It required a change in the book and is penalized as soon as it is discovered even if the player is already in the game.

Adam Tue Nov 21, 2006 06:54pm

Thanks, Cameron. You just saved me the effort of posting this when I check my rule book at home. :)

Adam

Larks Tue Nov 21, 2006 07:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEAR42
The Player Had Not Been In The Game.

How about preventative officiating?

Ok - so a team member was not in the book? Did the ball become live? Was this team member beckoned onto the floor?

If your answers are no to all the above - Why not give the coach the option to withdraw the sub or take the T to get her in? JV and lower - thats how I'd handle it for sure.

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the the rule deal with players not being in the book. She's not a player until I beckon her on to the floor or the ball becomes live right?

?!?

Adam Tue Nov 21, 2006 09:00pm

Larks, I might do this at JH level and below; if I thought of it. But I think by JV, we can reasonably expect the coaches to know what they're doing with the book.

johnnyrao Tue Nov 21, 2006 09:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larks
How about preventative officiating?


Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the the rule deal with players not being in the book. She's not a player until I beckon her on to the floor or the ball becomes live right?

?!?

That's correct. If the coach of team A realizes it and calls her back to the bench before she is beckoned then there is no penalty, but once she "legally enters the court" she is a player and the penalty is enforced.

Larks Tue Nov 21, 2006 09:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEAR42
Team "A" is to inbound the ball after a time out. Team "A" also wants to sub in a player. The official score keeper notices the sub's number is not in the score book

Hold up - Re-thinking this.....When did A6 become a player here? If she checked in prior to the time out, then lined up to participate in the throw in, I think we have to consider her a player. We would consider her a player vs. bench pers. if we called a T on her for say profanity in this case wouldn't we?

My thought process was more along the lines of if she never got player status....in that case, I let the coach have the option to buy her in or wait.

Agree?

M&M Guy Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larks
Hold up - Re-thinking this.....When did A6 become a player here? If she checked in prior to the time out, then lined up to participate in the throw in, I think we have to consider her a player. We would consider her a player vs. bench pers. if we called a T on her for say profanity in this case wouldn't we?

My thought process was more along the lines of if she never got player status....in that case, I let the coach have the option to buy her in or wait.

Agree?

That's what I was thinking - if she's at the table and hasn't been waved onto the court, we can give the coach the option of putting her back on the bench, or let her on with the T to correct the book. I was going under the impression the player went up to the table, and as she was waiting, the table figured out her number was wrong in the book.

Jurassic Referee Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust
Incorrect. This is a book error, not an illegal number. It required a change in the book and is penalized as soon as it is discovered even if the player is already in the game.

Case book play 3.2.2SitC.


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