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Five second count on a drive
We had an interesting discussion in our association meeting last night about the five second closely guarded count. Imagine that a dribbler gets head and shoulders past his defender on a drive to the basket only to be picked up by a secondary defender who was already within six feet (so at least one defender was continuously within six feet the whole time). Would you continue your count? If so, why? If not, why not? Would it make any difference to you if it were near the basket or 40 feet away?
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From the RULING in casebook play 9.10.1SitB- "There is no requirement for the defensive player to remain the same during the count <b>as long as A1 is closely guarded throughout</b>". It's a violation anywhere on the court. The dribbler only got head and shoulders past one defender, not both of them. If the other defender was within 6 feet, the count simply continues. |
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It's a violation anywhere in the <b>frontcourt</b>, except for maybe Wimmen's basketball of which I know nuthin' about. |
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Wait, am i reading this correctly?
A1 dribbling around can guarded by B1, B2, and B3 each individually so long as one of them is always within six feet and the closely guarded count continues and does not restart with each change of defender??? Is the rule the same in NCAA and NCAA-W? |
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In NCAA it must be the same defender -- when there's a switch, the count starts over. |
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I know I'll probably be beheaded for saying this, but you'd better check around in your area before you call this. I know what the strict letter of the law says, and I'm not saying that JR is incorrect in his interp. But I also know that some rules are called with local variations that directly contradict the book, and whether or not I or anyone else approve of this, that's the way it's done. I'd check with a local interpreter before i called this in any game.
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In NCAA-W there is no closely guarded count while A1 is dribbling, only while she is holding the ball. The count happens anywhere on the court, not just in the frontcourt. |
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Okay, well I had to do that since Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy has yet to be replaced. No, not at all. Howard is a by the book kinda guy -- except for 3 seconds. But my point is exactly that in areas where there is a strong tradition of how to interpret things, it's best to go by that tradition, just like we use Howard's 3 second rule here, rather than the legality of the book. |
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Sorry.....I couldn't resist:D Great to see you last night...it's been awhile! Now that test night (and we all hopefully passed) is over the courts are safe once again! |
OOPS! Looks like BITS beat me to it - sure proof that twisted minds think alike...
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Now that the test is over, the courts are once again safe? I don't follow that thinking at all!! I can name several people who undoubtedly passed who are clearly NOT safe on the court. I hate that thing! But it was fun to sit and chat. And I was so busy blabbing, I didn't ask how your kids are. |
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But just imagine the fun we can have picking out a suitable Ms. Grammar Gal picture. |
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I'm not calling 5 seconds unless there is a defender actively guarding the player with the ball. Just because another player is standing within 6 feet, it does not mean that the 2nd defender is actually guarding or even knows what's going on.
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I'm with BBR. If the player is effectivly "passed off" to a focused-on-that-player defender, keep counting. Just because a post player is within 6 feet and chasing somebody else - I cannot see a penalty. |
The 5 second count continuing from one defender to another is more prevalent in the case of a screen. When a defensive switch occurs immediately after the primary defender has been screened, and a new deffender obtains legal guarding position inside 6 feet immediately, I keep my count going.
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I'd use caution with this call if the dribbler is driving to the hoop. If your on 5 and the dribbler's next step is to start a shot attempt I would think he should be allowed the oppertunity to attempt the shot. If he passes then blow it dead with the 5 sec. violation. We all know it's better to be late then early!
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BBR & Ref Daddy make a good point. In order for the 5 second count to continue, the 2nd defender must establish LGP on the offensive player before it is terminated with the 1st defender - otherwise he gets a new 5 second count. As Smitty said, this happens most commonly in the event of a screen - other common situation it can occur is when there's a double team.
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He doesn't need to have LGP. He only needs to be guarding the player with the ball; which does not require LGP.
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Wait a minute.... I certainly hope she's not holding .... Are you implying (I'm inferring) that I have ever...... I'm shocked!! Shocked, I tell you!! I'm just glad my poor sainted grandmother isn't around to see this. If she weren't dead, it would kill her!! |
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