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Center Toss
Boys JH game last night. I am the R. I toss the ball up and wait to see which direction it is goin. As I glance up I see A1 (Team A's center) holding the ball with two hands then toss it to a teammate. I wait for a whistle from one of my partners but it never comes. I know this is not the R's call, but in this situation would you quickly put your whislte in your mouth and call it? I did not. I also had to listen to the Team B coach since I became the T right in front of his bench. He was right on this one. At halftime U1 said he thought the center just tapped it with both hands and U2 said he did not see it. Any advice for me for the future if I am the R? Looking back, I think I probably should have called it.
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I would give my partner first shot, then if no call, find my whistle and make the call, cause my whistle is not in my mouth when I toss.
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Which state do you work in that has three man in JH? |
So... you're using the toss, duck, and cover method? :D
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Far as I'm concerned, all 3 of you dinked this up. Something that is not taught at all is the jump ball procedure. You tossed the ball and then you glanced up! That must have been one heck of a toss. When you toss the ball you should be looking up to make sure the jumpers don't touch the ball before it reaches it highest point. You also need to look up to make sure you tossed it straight. That way if someone grabs it, you are right there to see it.
Granted your partners are responsible to make this call, if they don't, then it's okay for you to call it, if you have defiant knowledge. Also, your toss may not have been high enough if one of the jumpers tipped it with two hands, which I don't think is legal anyway. You toss the ball high enough, they can't jump up and tip it with two hands. |
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1) Borrow a book from somebody and look up what a jumper can legally do. As usual, you're completely wrong. There has <b>NEVER</b> been a rule in any ruleset stating that you can't tip a ball with 2 hands on a jump. 2) That statement ties for the dumbest one ever made on this forum. Why can't they can't tip it with 2 hands? Isn't the ball gonna come back down? Ever heard of "gravity"? Lah me.... |
[2) That statement ties for the dumbest one ever made on this forum. Why can't they can't tip it with 2 hands? Isn't the ball gonna come back down? Ever heard of "gravity"?
Lah me....[/QUOTE] I hate to ask what was the dumbest if you think that was dumb. Why can't you tip the ball with both hands? Because it might look like you caught it and beep, other way. Because if your coach sees this, you might not be the jumper anymore for your team. We don't have to worry about the between the lines in the rulebook JR. So technically, I guess you are correct, but realistically, it might not be that smart for a jumper to do. Isn't the ball gonna come back down? Ever heard of gravity? Oh my, I got to respond to that. The objective of the jump ball procedure is to toss the ball high enough so that the ball is touched by one or both jumper at it's highest point. If that doesn't happen, than it probably wasn't a good toss. Like I said, jump ball procedure needs to be taught and you can't learn that in a rulebook, JR, aka referee hater. |
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Why can't you tip the ball with both hands? Because it might look like you caught it and beep, other way. Because if your coach sees this, you might not be the jumper anymore for your team. We don't have to worry about the between the lines in the rulebook JR. So technically, I guess you are correct, but realistically, it might not be that smart for a jumper to do.[/quote] Just because the coach might not want the jumper to do so, doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that it's illegal -- as you "thought'" it might be. Quote:
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Hey JR, I liked the part where he told the OP'er that it was bad that he tosses it and then glanced up, but then went on to tell the OP'er that he should look up to make sure it's a good toss, yada, yada, yada...don't do it, but do it? Interesting...
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Starting the game off on a bad note sets the wrong tone in my opinion. I think this is a pre-game topic.
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Can you spell T-R-O-L-L?:D |
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Peace |
Looks like the thanksgiving turkey is making an early appearance
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Something obvious like that happens I'm going to blow my whistle and call the violation.
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I also think you need to get out more...... |
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What did I tell you about this goober, folks. T-R-O-L-L! :D |
So, Old School, are you a referee? If so, how long and what levels have you worked?
I assume you've come to this forum to receive and dispense knowledge, just like the rest of us. Most of us receive knowledge from those we know have more than us. Other times we might discuss situations that have happened to us on the court. If you are coming here for the first time simply dispensing your knowledge, it would be helpful to the rest of us to know a little more about you. |
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...<i>edited by</i>...
Thanks, Bob. For someone who has only posted a couple of times, it was already getting out of control. |
Who's out of control, me or you?
Here's the deal. When I work basketball games, I want to see basketball plays. I have never seen a jumper go up on a jump and tap it with both hands, never. Can you name a case? When you start doing stuff like that, that's not basketball and the caution flag goes up. Are we playing volleyball today, or are we playing bb? I'm here to ref bb, so volleyball players please leave the court. So deep in the case book, it is ruled legal. Great! That's just what we all need to know. I don't think it does anyone any good to get to carried away with issues like this that's never likely to occur. Peace |
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Peace |
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Is tipping a rebound to a teammate with two hands a non-basketball play too? Is tipping a pass to a teammate with two hands a non-basketball play too? Is tipping the ball back in-bounds with two hands while saving it from going out-of-bounds a non-basketball play too? Want me to keep going? JThomas, you've never officiated a regular basketball game in your life.:rolleyes: Btw, what is the rule book definition of a "tip" and where may I find it in the NFHS rule book? |
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http://img.webring.com/r/p/popcorn/logo
But really thinking... http://www.tasteofhome.com/Meals/200...TH10527D13.jpg |
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Dang it though; you made me drool on my keyboard. |
I totally agree with you RUT. However, none of these points that the others mention or related to the center toss. I was referring to the jump ball, not a rebound, not a pass to a teammate because the jumper can't pass it to a teammate. When you jump up to tip the ball, it is 99.99999999% tip'd with one hand. Why the rulebook has that .00000001% case is a mystery to me.
It all gets back to using the correct procedure like I said orginally. The basic theory behind the jump ball is the have the highest jumper tip the ball to a teammate. This use to be a special honor for a player. It is all about who can jump the highest. I believe that there is no one in the game of bb that will tell you, they can jump higher with 2 hands up then with 1. I also believe there is no coach that will teach the proper mechanic for the jump ball is to jump with 2 hands either. The key is to throw the ball so these jumpers will have to jump as high as they can to tip the jump ball. If you don't throw it up high enough, then I suppose a 2-hand tap will work, but that's more a poor toss. In the case of the girl protecting herself and just trying to get her hands on the ball. Poor technique if you ask me. |
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Bump, set, spike, and tapping the ball with two hands -- they're all legal, even if never done. |
All I see in rule 6-3 is as long as prior to the jump all the requirements have been met, no jumper shall touch the ball more than twice. Even if you counted each hand individually it would still be two touches. This is truely a goof play that happens once in a lifetime.
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And whether the jumpers hit it with two hands has nothing to do with the quality of the toss. Both jumpers may mis-time their jumps and the ball may be well on the way down when they hit it. I'm having visions of Ace Ventura bending over to talk to his supervisor here. |
Maybe your right, who does care. But it seems to me the thing that seperates officials, is getting the obscure call correct and being able to explain it. Thier are a lot of good officials, and something has to seperate you from them. Knowledge of the rules and how to apply them seems like a good start. Lots of officials look great out on the court, and then are lost once the game starts. This forum and these discussions, however trivial are where that begins. I'm new to this site and enjoy the topical debate on such things. Just my opinion.
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Don't drink the Kool-Aid from the old non-official that is posting in this thread. You would be very wise to completely disregard everything that he says. <i>"He knoweth not what he speaks!"</i>.:) |
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Right from the rulebook-- <i>"a pass is movement of the ball caused by the player who throws, <b>bats</b>, or rolls the ball to another player"</i>. The jumper can't bat the ball to a teammate, eh?:rolleyes: If you had a rulebook, you might have known that one, Old Troll. |
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I appreciate all the responses. To cut through to the meat of what I learned in this thread, it is that in the future, even though it may be a late whistle, I will call it if I know for sure what I saw. Also, I learned a two hand touch is legal. It may never happen but now I know that if it does happen I am ready for it. Finally, I have never been to a camp so I am going off of my training and what I have learned from this web site. As the R, I toss the ball and, no I usually do not look up. I have practiced my toss and almost always get a good one. I don't look up until late because I was told that is a good way to get a broken nose from tall players. I also do not have my whistle in my mouth. If this is not correct then what is the correct way to do it? |
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I don't think the world's gonna come to an end if I call a violation because I thought the jumper grabbed the ball with 2 hands instead of tapping, batting, or rolling the tip to a teammate. Peace |
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Did you have a chance to go over any of the questions I asked you a while back? If not, I'm sure the world isn't gonna to come to an end. :) |
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Don't worry about getting hit by a jumper. Worry about getting your toss right, straight and high enough. The whistle should not be in your mouth. Last thing, be observant as you toss. If you see something coming at you, elbow, foot, wild swinging arm, get your hand up and protect yourself. With the boys/men, separate them a bit at the circle. They do not need to be right up against each other for your toss. That space in between is for you and it will help keep them from contacting you with a body part when you release the ball to start the jump. |
Worry about protecting yourself. Your partner has this call for a reason; it's a better angle than you have.
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Peace |
Yeah but, if you don't know the rules regarding a jump ball, how can you call anything?
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