After Bob Knight again
 

It looks like the media people are after Bob Knight again.
This time he popped a kid under the chin in getting the player to look at him and the media has stated that he struck a player in the face. :(

He's misunderstood. Look at this and you'll see.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=R_1Hz9cAru8

Bob's a bully.
 

Well I will go ahead and step in it. I saw the video of the "gentle lifting" and also of the kid on the bench massaging his "gentley lifted jaw". I mean really at what point do people tell him "thats enough little Bobby go stand in the corner for about 25 years.
He is a bully. If I saw him at the bar he would be considered another fat,hot headed guy who has had lots of practice picking himself off the barroom floor. Cause in the world I live in .you gently lift someone's chin you are in for some gentle lifting of your own.
Assuming the quotes attributed to the parents are accurate these people are brain-dead. I mean he hit your son or gently lifted his jaw and you say it's no big deal. Brain-dead. I don't even know your kid and wanted to punch little bobby in the face. Make little bobby go away.

Good grief. If it's not an all-out assault, let it go. No one put a gun to this kid's head and forced him to play for Knight. It's not like Knight's style has suddenly changed since this kid got recruited.

Here Come the apologists
 

good grief is right ! What part of no hitting other people doesn't little bobby get ? So if a coach did that to you cause he didn't like a call you made it would be okay cause you voluntarily went there to ref ? I think its a reasonable expectation that little bobby would keep his hands to himself.
Big fat blowhard in position of authority , hits people not in position of authority =BIg FAT BLOWHARD BULLY...

If you don't think that is considered assault try doing it the next time you get pulled over for speeding. I imagine the DA isn't going to let it slide or the cop who puts a whoop a$$ on you for doing it .....

There is a HUGE difference between you doing that to a police officer and a coach doing that to a player. There is a quite a difference in the type of relationship and bond a player and coach have verses a speeder and a police officer or even the player and the referee.

Up until this incident I never had any interest in defending Bobby Knight, but I think the media is making this much worse then it is. Bobby is the guy the media likes to talk about because everyone knows what he is capable of and they try and compare everything he does to what he has done...

Video ?
 

Is there video of this recent Bobby Knight incident anywhere on the internet ?

I have seen where that "bond" resembles something like The Stockholm Syndrome."

When is little bobby gonna learn to stop hitting people ?

A bully is a bully is a bully. Notice that bobby the bully generally only hits people he is in a position of having authority over.

How about little bobby comes on down to the local watering hole and "gently lifts" the chin of one of the regulars . He doesn't do it cause he knows that they fight back.

When is little bobby gonna learn to stop hitting people ?

You are exactly right. Because of his history, Coach Knight is under a microscope. He has nobody to blame other than the mirror because he brought it all on himself. A normal person would know that they are on thin ice and make sure they stay out of the doghouse. However, Coach Knight cannot control his temper and has never admitted to himself that he is a problem and he never will.

He talks about how he demands discipline from his players, but what about self discipline? He'll probably continue to get free passes until he pulls a Woody Hayes.

________________________________
You don't need a video. It's on Sports Center every 45 seconds! Am I a Bobby fan? Nope! Should he have done this? Nope! Is it anything close to being a big deal? Nope! Do I want to hear about it tomorrow? Nope. Would any other coach in the country have this thing scrutinized to death? Nope.
Move on media guys. Find another story!

Where is TO when you need him?:D

Tempest in a teapot. ESPN has nothing better to do with their time than debate this?

Robert Knight's past behavior is well-documented. When you commit to play for him, you also commit to be treated like a grunt in basic training for four or five years.

The kid isn't complaining, the parents aren't complaining, only the haters and the busybodies are complaining.

Iraqis are being kidnapped and blown up, and US soldiers are giving their lives to protect them, and the media covers this? Heather Mills must have forgotten to hold a press conference yesterday.

They even brought a female psychologist on TV to analyze the player’s body language to determine what was going through his mind before and after Knight touched him.

Obviously Knight goes overboard on occasion, but this is being blown entirely out of proportion. I don't agree with everything he has done, but you have to admit, his players graduate, they stay out of trouble, and they are extremely loyal to him as he is to them. He is certainly a coach that puts student before athlete which is what we need more of if you ask me.

I got myself all fired up on little bobby so I promise to myself and the world this is my last post on bobby.

The end results are in -bobby graduates his players, he wins basketball games and does all these wonderful things for humanity. No argument there.

I just wish he would do all this without the gently lifted jaws, the broken noses, throwing of chairs etc.......

Kind of like say a Coach K.

Whatever!!!
 

Yeah, Coach K is an angel. Cursus out officials, calls officials names and threatens them, but that is OK because the media likes him.

Peace

I'm not an apologist for Knight
 

Ah, now you're just projecting. ;)

I'm a lifelong Hawkeye fan, so I have no love for coach Knight. I watched the whole "Knight-Alford feud" play out over the last few years, and thought less of Knight for it. Although I have found his interviews to be funny over the years; he has also been verbally abusive to reporters and such. He's not a nice guy.

But this whole kerfuffle is just stupid. You don't execute a man for doing 60 mph in a 55 mph zone just because he has a reputation of driving 180 mph. This thing with the chin? It's just 60 mph.

He's a very confrontational coach. No surprise there. The kid wasn't looking up, Knight wanted him to and he needed it to happen quickly. Did you even see the video?

Well said, Rut.

For the life of me, I can't believe all the Knight apologists here and elsewhere. Does he deserve to be executed for this latest incident? No, but that doesn't mean it was right or even "no big deal." It is a big deal, and the fact that the player isn't saying anything about it means nothing. I guess he just wants to keep his scholarship. Big surprise there.

This incident is symptomatic. Knight is out of control. I'm surprised ESPN is making hey out of this as they are the ones that started the Knight rehabilitation tour with that walk-on documentary. Yes, I watched it, and I came away from it thinking Knight mugged for the camera.

An attack on Knight is NOT an attack on disciplinary coaching. Its an attack on thuggery.

Well, I finally saw a replay of the "gentle lifting of the jaw".

JMO, but it was out of line. He popped the kid in the chin, he didn't lift the kids head to ensure eye contact. If that was my child, I would have been happy to see him shove Knight back on his @$$ or would have gladly done it myself after the game.

If Knight felt it necessary to resort to a physical act to get the kid's attention, he could have poked him in the chest or grabbed the kid by his arm. But that pop to the chin was done out of anger IMO.

Okay, I've seen the replay a few times, I seriously don't think it's that big a deal. if you want to see him fired over it; so be it. all we can do is ask the player what he thinks and move on. He's an adult; and I'm guessing he could get a scholarship elsewhere if that was his only concern.
Attacking coach Knight for this incident is not an attack on thuggery. Knight may be an a$$, but I'd hardly call him a thug. And this is not assault. Good grief.

Apologies to Stephen Foster

I don't care about Bobby Knight
Doo-da Doo-da
I don't care if he's wrong or right
Oh de doo-dah day

They'll play this clip all night
They'll play this clip all day
But I don't care about Bobby Knight
So STFU about it already.

:rolleyes:

"The kid isn't complaining"

...neither did the kid who got "abused" by that good looking blonde teacher.
Does that make it right?;)

Everyone in the world do not react the same to types of actions. Some of us grew up with coaches just like that and we do not see the problem. It is not a big deal to me because if that is all that Coach Knight did then I find people that are offended as part of the problem with have in this society. Now you might not have liked what he did, but the kid and the parents could have made an issue out of this. Coach Knight would not have the power to just get rid of a kid's scholarship for what you consider an assault.

We have kids that talk back to all forms of authority. I know players say thing we would have never imagined on the court or do things we would have never imagined. You might not like the style, but there was a time when participants were much more respectful of the game and the officials working. BTW, every single official that I have talked to about Coach Knight and actually officiated with him, liked the man and thought he was one of the fairest coaches they worked with.

The main factor is that Knight is not nice to the media. If he was nicer to the media or did not call them out for asking stupid questions and trying to make mountains out of molehills, he might be loved by them. The media likes people that are nice to them. When they are nice to them, they go out of their way to make them seem better people than they really are behind the seems. All I can say is the people that played for Knight love him and they dealt with him much more than you or me. If his players hated his guts, then I might go there with you.

Peace

LMAO....like they were saying on Fox or CNN News yesterday. If it's a good-looking teacher, it's "ah, it ain't so bad", but if the teacher is unattractive we say "it's terrible what she did to that innocent child".

Same with Knight situation, he's a successful coach who's graduates his players so give him a pass.

I do not know if anyone ever saw the antics of Lou Holtz, Roy Williams or many football head coaches that will go unnamed. Williams grabbed a player in anger to get that kid to play defense while the play was live. Lou Holtz grabbed the facemask of a player in clear view of the camera. I did not see anyone at the time go crazy about those actions or talk about those coaches as bullies or being out of control.

Now if you feel the actions are wrong, that is your right. Just do not come here and get mad because Knight does this and ignore all the situations that took place in front of the camera and not say anything. I agree there is a double standard, but the two coaches I referenced are also very successful coaches and the media or the public was not outraged.

Peace

That's my point, successful coach = free pass. I'm not saying anyone should be fired for any of these particular/individual offenses, but I get tired hearing "graduates players", "won national championships", "players love him" as the basis of determining whether or not these acts were right or wrong.

As the folks in South Park say, "Nice.....nice.":D

Or alternatively.....
http://www.forumspile.com/Care-Map.jpg

I do not consider the issue as a free pass. The media has been talking about this to infinitum. We are even talking about this and I do not recall when other less successful coaches did similar things that we even talked about it. This suggests to me that the media and many people who will never like Knight will always bring things like this to the forefront of all issues that need to be discussed in our society. This is not much different than what happens to Bonds or Sammy Sosa. You cannot get them on what the record shows, so you create a story and start talking about right and wrong, but you have no evidence to nail them to the wall. Just like Bonds, he has never failed a test or never had a smoking gun found directly at his feet, but we have speculated and want to take action based on what we "think" happen. The same thing is with Knight. The player did not have a problem with the action nor did his parents that saw the play live and in the arena. But the self-righteous media (who never played much of anything in most cases on that level) want to start telling all of us what is right and wrong and what should or should not happen.

Let me let the people who never played sports in on a little secret. Stop comparing what would happen in a classroom to what happens in an athletic event. Since I cannot recall that I have ever heard much foul language in a classroom (there might have been a teacher or two, but I do not remember for sure) but I hear foul and abusive language all the time from the participants and fans all the time at sporting events. But instead of getting outraged about this, we get upset at Coach Knight.

Peace

JMO, but striking a subordinate is almost always wrong. Striking one's student (unless the teacher is being attacked) is always wrong. Always. The very nature of the relationship discourages the subordinate from making any kind of grievance. Knight is a bully, in my opinion. He probably shouldn't be fired for this particular incident of striking a student; but then, I never would've hired him in the first place.

Please. Don't tell me you can't see the difference here. You're saying there is no distinction between a grabbed chin and statutory rape combined with sexual abuse.

Are you suggesting this was an assault?

If you don't think that Coach K has ever grabbed a player to jerk him into position in practice or popped a kid under the jaw or in the forehead to get him to look at him than you are living in a dream world.

Then there are thousands of coaches all across this country at every level that are thugs. I've seen this done by coaches all the time at all levels and in every sport. If the kid isin't looking at you when you are talking then you pop em under the chin or you pop em in the forhead or you grab the facemask and jerk their head up. Coaches have been doing this forever and they will keep doing it. And again, if you think that Coach K, Roy Williams, Dean Smith or any other succesful college coach hasn't done the same thing before then you are living in a dream world.

Surethehellam.

Come on out to these parts Mr. Jimgolf...let me jack you one under the chin("grab" mya$$)...see if you get pi$$ed!

If you hit your boss like Knight hit that kid...or better yet your boss hit you like Knight hit that kid...do you think there would be any repercussions?

What if you, as an official, hit a player like that? Or you hit a Coach like that...you know, to get his attention?

Jimgolf...I think I might know a little about what an assault is. In mine line of work I need to know these things and have taken many law enforcement classes to give me a good idea of "use of force" guidelines.

You wanna pop your kid in the chin...go ahead...but, don't even try it with mine.

P.S. Hey JRut...if an LA police officer came up and jacked you one under the chin, because you weren't looking at him, do you think you might have a case against him?

Wow, another displaced analogy.

Rodney King got his tale kicked and they were acquitted from any wrong doing. So you tell me. ;)

Peace

Then you wouldn't send your kid to be coached by Knight. These parents did, knew what to expect, and accept that their son might be disciplined in the customary Knight manner.

As for assault, it is defined as "an act done with intent to cause another injury or imminent fear of injury. The act may be direct (hitting someone with a fist) or indirect (putting something in their drink). "

There clearly was no intent to commit injury, nor fear of injury, therefore no assault.

Displaced analogy...I didn't see this kid resisting anything...he was passive.
RK was fighting back, he got is A$$ kicked. (Oh yeah, and a lot of money);)

You know it's time to lock the thread when the posts start wandering into "maybe Rodney King had it coming to him" territory.

Mods, do your work.

Well, my friend...a good lawyer might just debate with you weather or not this kid was in fear.

A good lawyer will debate anything. Even the weather. Whether or not they have a leg to stand on. ;)

True...and good catch!:D

Wanna discuss O.J. and his new book instead?:D

That one will go longer than the baseball thread.

Well, he did say IF he did it, and according to cnn he actually cried during the interview.

Rodney King... just a thought, I was watching a show that brought up the whole Rodney King incident. Has anyone on this site ever seen the WHOLE video, including the 13 seconds BEFORE what was shown in court? You know the part where Rodney got in a high speed pursuit with police officers and was failing to respond to the police commands and don't forget the clip when he attacked an officer causing bodily harm to said officer...

Just wondering if anyone else saw that and not just when the officers were taking him into custody?

Reasonable people do not care what happen before the parts of the tape were shown. What we care about is what we saw on the tape. Even if he did not listen to police and their direct orders, the police had ample opportunity to take control of the situation and choose to continue to beat them. I have seen many times just on the show “Cops” how several officers take over a situation rather quickly and do not need to constantly beat an individual they way they did Mr. King. I also do not care the character of Rodney King either and how it plays into this situation. There are a lot of incidents with Police that I have witnessed personally that have abused their power and were punished for it. Police officers are not above the law and this was just the case that brought the media and other incidents to the forefront.

Now that is my political statement for the day.

Peace

I value your comments and not to get off track anymore than we already have, but I want to just make one more comment.

I just burried a brother police officer not much longer than a month ago, after he was shot in the head at point blank range by a suspect when my brother responded to a domestic related call. At this point in my life, MY SAFETY is most important at all times so I can go home to my family at the end of my shift. To most people this is going to sound insensitive but I really am not. If I throw a few extra punches to an uncooperative suspect I am trying to take into custody, and that allows me to go home at the end of my shift... so be it! He shouldn't have resisted in the first place.

Anyways, thats all I wanted to say since someone brought up the good old Rodney King case....

Do you mean here?

Rodney King got his tale kicked and they were acquitted from any wrong doing. So you tell me. ;)

WRONG--Two police officers went to prison, and two others were fired.


Reasonable people do not care what happen before the parts of the tape were shown. What we care about is what we saw on the tape. Even if he did not listen to police and their direct orders, the police had ample opportunity to take control of the situation and choose to continue to beat them. I have seen many times just on the show “Cops” how several officers take over a situation rather quickly and do not need to constantly beat an individual they way they did Mr. King.

WRONG AGAIN--Reasonable people are the only ones who care about the what happened on the whole tape. The people who are uninformed and narrow minded and want to shape every situation into something that will benefit them, are the people who only care about what we saw on the news.

Please don't tell me that you form your opinion of law enforcement from watching COPS. That is like forming your opinion of athletes by watching WWF. COPS is a television show produced for entertainment, please take it for what it is.

I second the motion!

Before this gets locked, Dan Wetzel of Sports Illustrated had a coherent view of this latest Bobby Knight incident. ESPN is like the National Enquirer when it comes to certain people, while others get a pass.

Article at http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?s...yhoo&type=lgns

My father used to work in the Dallas County Coroners office as a Lab Technician and would do autopsies and analyze police shootings. He worked in that office for about 5 years before retiring from his main profession. It was funny how you would watch the local news and the story would be one thing from the cops and the reality would be something completely different with the people that actually saw the body. It was funny how many times we would hear that the police shot someone based on what the cops thought (he had a gun, he was threatening us) then when my father would talk about the evidence, it did not match. For example how many police shootings would involve the "suspect" being shot in the back and no gun was present, but the police claimed some 15 year old had a gun.

Secondly, I have dealt with Cops in traffic stops and the stuff they ask and assume things that are absurd. So my feelings on cops are not limited to a TV show and I did not say my only opinion was based on that. I just know that Cops will lie and have lied (come watch some news around here about police brutality and behavior with the public). The wonderful thing is that most cops are wonderful, hard working people. But just like we say about officials, "one official makes the rest of us look bad." Well that is really true with cops when life or death is at stake. Everything cops do or say is not legal or moral.

Peace

Well, he'd have to have the kid on his side to have any case; and I think we all know where the player stands here....

I think it is funny how the comments about coach K get ignored. I'm still trying to decide who is the most overhyped coach of all time, coach K or Dean Smith.

Vitale was doing an Indiana/Butler game the other night and out of the blue said, "I can't wait to see Duke..." He is so obviously biased when it comes to Duke it is sickening.

Heresy!

Heresy, I tell ya!:D

Now for my favorite Bobby Knight quote of all time; "That was a stupid question. Would you like to start over?"

Why was it stupid, are they tied?

I was just looking for an excuse to throw out the quote; sorry you got caught in the middle. :D