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Perfect example of all partners giving a visual number of shots, with lead waiting to confrim with partners before administarting the throw's. Trail needs to make sure that lead is giving the right info. |
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Originally Posted by just another ref Is there anything in the rule book which says that anything the official says has enough weight to override a rule? If so, I may rethink my position. I find nothing in the rule book that even says that an official shall say how many free throws there are. (mechanics manual does) Look at it the other way: Official says 1 & 1, but the players all know better. Ball comes off the rim and bounces on the floor, untouched, for several seconds. Following your line of reasoning, you're now going to clear the lane, shoot the second, and then use the arrow? Quote:
The main thing I am looking for is some reference to an officials erroneous information carrying any weight other than when, as in 8.6.1, it clearly put one team at a disadvantage. I don't see how it can be clear who was put at a disadvantage here. Even if everybody went for the rebound, what if A3 knew it was 2 shots and got a late start after he saw that "everybody else was doing it." (I think somebody else suggested this earlier) |
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The original poster gave additional info on this thread saying all players went for the rebound @ the same time. He obviously didn't come in with a whistle as soon as the players went to rebound. he stated that they all went for the rebound then B recovered the rebound. This isn't any different then the case book play other then the # of throws. Since all players went for the rebound and they all had the same opportunity to get he rebound no ADVANTAGE or DISADVANTAGE existed. So I agree we need to clear the lane and give another free throw and go POI. This is the way the Federation came up with not awarding a merited free throw. Since there was a change of possession you can't take the ball away from B. If you did then that would be disadvantage to the B team. |
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End of story.:rolleyes: |
B is put at a disadvantage because you've taken an earned rebound away from them and are potentially making them earn it again; if A gets the rebound of the next miss, you've cheated B. Yes, I'm assuming all 6 players went for the rebound.
consider this situation. 7th team foul, and you don't realize it's a one-and-one. A1's inbound pass gets stolen by B2, whereby you notice the error and blow the play dead immediately. You blow it dead so quick, the clock runs off about a second or so. You gonna line them up and shoot? |
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The problem with this example is that the official had to administer the throw-in following the 7th team foul. The team didn't just take the ball out of bounds and do it by themselves. This isn't the old FIBA. Therefore, the official clearly DID SOMETHING that was a mistake in your play, whereas in the scenario with the FT the official is an idle bystander (after mistakenly saying 1-and-1). To me that is quite different. |
Rather than continue to rehash this matter, I'd recommend to just another ref and gimlet25id that they check out these two old threads. Perhaps something you read there will be to your liking.
http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=24704 http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=24983 |
While I agree that this play has a specific method to administer, which has been posted already, it would be interesting to see what the NFHS says about the situation.
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Originally Posted by just another ref In 2.10.1 the ball is allowed to remain in play and significant things happen. In this play ball is whistled dead immediately. (original poster's word, not mine) Quote:
I knew there was somebody else with me. Careful buddy, there are a lot more of them than there are of us.:) |
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Change my alternate situation a bit. Lead official calls a shooting foul, as the trail comes in on the switch, he mistakenly thinks it's a common foul and sets the kids up for a throw-in. The calling official reports the foul, and heads to his spot opposite the table. The kids are lined up for a throw in, but for whatever reason (let's assume the inbounds play somehow looks like a freethrow lineup) doesn't notice the error. On the throw-in, B1 steals the pass. As soon as B1 grabs the ball, the calling official (now trail) blows the ball dead realizing the error. It's a bit closer to the OP, and I don't think anyone could argue you'd just line them up and shoot the free throws. You have to go Correctable Error because of the change of possession. |
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I'm thinking @ first immediately was right when the ball came off the rim or right as the B team was controlling the rebound. Immediately in my mind would have been as soon as the official knew it wasn't good and seen the players jocking for a rebound. That didn't happen here. All players went in then a rebound was controlled, even though it doesn't matter if time ran off or not to correct, if time did run off then you know he didn't hit the whistle immediately. Like I said before if all players went for the rebound then no disadvantage/advantage was given or obtained. Although I would rather tell the coach the ball was already dead and we were just going to line up and shoot another and I will or would do that if it was remotely close...I don't think you can do that here. Significant action took place with most importantly a change of possession. Up until the OPoster gave new info I was right with you on the fact the ball was dead. After new info I don't think you have any other option but to invoke "correctable error." |
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