Re: Re: Okay, let's see if I got this right!
 

Understood, just not addressed because he was ejected for the 3 indirect T's.

Yep, you sent it to me but I couldn't put my hands on it during this discussion. I reviewed it during the season last year and plan to again this year. I still have it, just have to locate it.

One more question
 

1) Players Come off and do NOT fight -- doesn't matter how many, just one indirect. If numbers for both teams are same, they offset. IF numbers aren't the same, shoot two throws.


Bob, does this mean that if 3 players come off A's bench, and 2 players come off B's bench, but NOBODY from either bench participates, then B will shoot 2 free throws?

I think that's right, b/c even though only 1 indirect T is assessed to each coach for bench personnel, each of the substitutes from the bench gets a direct T. So 3 direct T's on A (plus one indirect on the coach), and only 2 direct T's on B (plus one indirect on the coach). Therefore, 2 free throws for B.

Is the above scenario changed if Team B has more players that actually participate in the fight? Say all the above remains true AND B1 and B2 punch A1 who also punches B1.

Now it seems that all the direct T's even out. Would we still shoot anything?


3) Coaches leave bench (without being beckoned) -- Flagrant direct on coach -- whether s/he fights or not. IF both coaches leave bench, they offset. If not, shoot two throws.


I was once told that if a coach comes off the bench to break up a fight, there is a 100% chance that he was beckoned, whether anybody saw it or not. Does anybody think that's valid? As long as the coach is breaking things up, you're not going to penalize him/her?

I guess that was more than one more question.

Chuck

Re: One more question
 

Chuck,
I saw you beckon that coach. ;)
That is well within the spirit and intent of the book.
mick

Re: Re: One more question
 

Thanks mick. I thought so. Just checking how other people see it.

Chuck

Re: One more question
 

Right - and it doesn't matter how big the discrepancy is. If 10 from A left and 1 from B left, but noe participated, you'd still have 1 indirect on each coach and B would shoot the throws for one technical (two throws). A would have a lot more team fouls, though.



Let me make sure I've got the scenario straight: A1, A2, A3, B1 and B2 come off the bench. A1, B1 and B2 particpate.

First, determine the fouls by category:

1) A has two off the bench; B has zero off the bench -- B will shoot 2.

2) A has one participate; B has 2 participate -- A will shoot two.

3) N/A

Now, add up the totals and offset. Here, they offset exactly, so no free throws are shot.

Quote:

3) Coaches leave bench (without being beckoned) -- Flagrant direct on coach -- whether s/he fights or not. IF both coaches leave bench, they offset. If not, shoot two throws. I was once told that if a coach comes off the bench to break up a fight, there is a 100% chance that he was beckoned, whether anybody saw it or not. Does anybody think that's valid? As long as the coach is breaking things up, you're not going to penalize him/her?

I agree.

Re: Re: One more question
 

Actually, Bob, in my mind, I was thinking that the players off the benches did not participate in the fight, but that 3 "players" (actually in the game) were fighting. I don't think it matters, tho, it should work out the same, right?

Chuck

Well, except you'd bang the coach if the players came off the bench--whether they participated or not--whereas you wouldn't if it were players on the court.

Re: One more question
 

Hey, that was two questions! :)

Yes, I think that's valid. In fact, I was going to post the same thing. As long as the coach is helpful when he enters the floor, we consider him to be beckoned. If he starts more ****, then he's got to go.