The Superintendent Husband
 

8th grade boys consolation game. 2nd quarter, I am trail table side. The assistant coach is up off the bench coaching at about this time before I could say coach have a seat. (being couteous) not whacking him!! His team steals the ball. So, I hit the whistle to stop play. I informed the head coach that his assistant needs to remain seated on the bench while the clock is running or its going to cost him the privilege of using the coaching box. We play on no problem the rest of the game.

After the game, it gets interesting.


AD: what happened with the Superintendent husband?
ME: who is that?
AD: the coach, you told he could not be up off the bench.
ME: I was being couteous by informing the head coach that his assistant could not be off the bench coaching.
AD: That was the Superintendent's husband she is upset that you told her husband to take a seat.
ME: I was being courteous it could have cost them a T. I elect not to issue one. Hindsight being 20/20, I would have been better off whacking him!! :rolleyes:


Anyone would have handle it differently?

Why would you blow your whistle to stop play if the assistant is standing and coaching? If he's yelling at you that's one thing, but if he's just coaching 8th graders, just tell him to have a seat and let the play continue. There's a time and a place for stopping play - your situation doesn't sound like an appropriate one.

At any level, YOU, as an official, MUST learn to communicate effectively with coach and players, as well as administrators . . . not to mention co-officials and your table crew.

I have to agree with Smitty . . . WHY would you stop the play to warn a coach, especially an assistant coach who is COACHING! Even if it were the Head Coach, WHY? Next time down the floor, as you go by, courteously remind the head coach that he is the only person allowed to stand during play, and that his/her assistant will need to sit down. And giving him a Technical Foul would have made the situation SO much worse. That is a TOOL you have at your disposal, but just because it is there doesn't mean you need to whip it out every chance you get.

Smiity, I could not agree with you more with one exception. He does not have to be yelling at me to get my attention. I look at bench decorum as part of game management.

You said he was "coaching" - you didn't say anything about him yelling. And even if he was, if all you were going to do is warn him, you should warn him without stopping play.

Skip to ** at the bottom for the short version

Read on from here for the long version

this is almost as bad as a game I was coaching -- we get a steal near midcourt ball bounces in the front court our player in the back court reaches over and picks up ball -- (boys Freshmen) -- so we have a player in the backcour that hit the ball out of the offensive player the ball bounces in our frountcourt not and our player who is in the backcourt retrieves it.

Yes we have a fastbreak and the opposing coach and fans are yelling for backcourt -- I am happy we have a fastbreak (2on0) -- TWEET

wtf -- what just happened -- well the official decided to stop the game to explain to the coach and fans about the backcourt rule and the 3 points of contact -- he even went as far to fget on the ground and touch the backcourt with his hand and then the frouncourt so everyone knew the difference.

I was shocked and the only thing out of my mouth was "How could you stop the game and take away an uncontested layup attempt from us to Explain that rule (a little emphasis on explain)" -- this ref has about 4 years experience and is in my class in my association. His response "coach I have heard enough out of you so sit down for the rest of the half"

well needless to say I responded "you cannot tell me to sit down and you are yet to answer any of my 3 legitimate questions regarding calls you have made on one side of the floor and not the other" -- well after that comment I sat the rest of the game -- still cannot figure out why i got my T.

**part of game management is not stopping the game in instances like this. next time down the court if the assistant is still standing just mention to him (not the head coach) "coach are you aware that only the head coach can stand during the game" -- IMO if he was yelling instructions to the kids and coaching and sits right back down ignore it -- after all he is an assistant and sometimes you have to stand to get a players attention on the court and tell him what to do. Whacking him would lead to another technical for any decent head coach who would be extremly pi$$ed off especially since he was coaching and you just come in with a T.

Like others have said a T is a tool to aid -- used incorrectly its also a tool to get you out of the water into the fire.

***lol I guess there was not short version

Smitty, I understand what you are saying. Without regards, if he was coaching or not he is not allowed to be up off the bench period.

Stopping the game has already been addressed, so let me just throw out a potentially even more courteous suggestion. When you get that opportunity to address the problem with the head coach, don't give him a directive, involve him in solving your problem.

"Coach, I need your help. I can't have assistants up off the bench during play. Can you help me with that, please?"

As for the fact that the asst. is the super's hubby, isn't it really just too sad that even (self)important people have to follow the rules? :rolleyes:

But in discussing it with the AD, who obviously feels some amount of pressure from his boss' boss, try to get the AD on your side: "I'm sorry it had to come to that, but we both know he can't be up like that. He's putting us both in a tough spot." Of course, not stopping the game, which has the unwanted effect of singling him out for unwanted attention, should help too.

No solution works every time or for every official. But if you can bring the coach or AD over to your side, form a little two person team to solve your collective problem, or at least get them to feel that it's yours and his collective problem even if you can't fix it, that person is more likely to respond positively than if it's mano a mano.

Just my $0.02

Sounds to me like you just needed to assert your authority and were looking for a solution to that problem. If you choose to look at all rules as black and white, you are likely to achieve your goal of asserting your authority often.

Following your logic, why did you not T him up right then and there? A rule's a rule, after all... :confused:

But it makes a big difference in the best way to handle it.

If the worst thing the assistant did was stand up to coach a player, address it at a naturaly stopping point....do not stop the game to deal with it...usually through the head coach. In fact, if the asst. coach merely stands up for 2-3 seconds and say a couple words to a player then sits, I'm likely to not even do anything.

If, however, the assistant was on you about a call, either let it go until the next dead ball and discuss it with the head coach or blow the whistle and T him. Don't blow the whistle just to warn the assistant.

Short version, how many chances are an assistant coach allowed?
I know T's are a tool. I also stated I did not issue one knowing that I could have. Ater it was done, The approach in which I use was it an ideal one NO!!. Was it effective VERY?

Effective is a relative term. Using a sledgehammer to drive a nail into drywall is effective, too. What people are trying to tell you is that there are other effective ways to deal with that situation without stopping the game mid-play.

"Dont whip it out every chance you get"? Interesting. Does that mean that you're telling officials to <b>sometimes</b> ignore the POE's in the back of the rule book.....specifically POE 5A in this year's rule book? As also opposed to POE 1D on the same subject in last year's rulebook too?

<i>"Assistant coaches must be seated at all times except during time-outs, to attend to an injured player after being beckoned and to spontaneously react to a play. The rules that apply to a head coach to arise in certain situations(time-outs, confer with table personnel for a correctable error, dealing with disqualifications) do <b>not</b> apply to assistant coaches under any circumstances. Again, the fact that an assistant coach is "only coaching" has no bearing on the rule or enforcement".</i>

Or am I misinterpreting your meaning?

Keep in mind this was an 8th grade game.

Good question, I asked myself the same question. I was not trying to assert my authority. Look, I am fully aware the approach I used was not ideal. I take ownership of that. I described my situation to see how many officials gives the assistant just as much latitude as the head coach.

I agree with use of the word effective a litte over the top though in how you describe it. I got that too.

effective for a short period -- that game -- effective long term no way.

now everytime that head coach sees you he sees you as a harda$$ who cannot communicate and instead of trying to work with him you would rather boss him around.

how effective that method is is of course up for debate but i think its NOT effective.

lets say that's your stance and we are talking about HS -- now coaches are complaining about your "effectiveness" to their AD's who in turn start complaining about the same "effectiveness" to your board. Even though we like to think coaches have no say in us as officials we are totally wrong. Enough coaches complaining will have some effect why because no one wants headaches and all i see your "effectivness" doing is giving out headaches in this situation. But hey we have someone with the initals GW who shoots from the hips first and ask questions never so why cant we have an official that does the same.

Set em up, shoot em down true --

and to your question how many chances are an assistant coach allowed?

like i said if they are coaching and sit right back down I would lean toward infinite...if they are barking at me they get 0 chances -- either a T or next time I can which will be sooner rather than later I will address it with the head coach. Decent headcoaches know the score and and bench rules -- and most decent Headcoaches dont want assistants doing their job.

One.

We tell our officials to tell the head coaches in the pre-game talk that it is expected that they will be the only ones standing in the box when play is going on. If the assistants are up later, then they should tell the head coach the first chance that they get that he is now being warned for allowing that assistant to stand. Next time, call the "T" with no further second warning.

Personally, I can agree and understand about not immediately stopping play to deliver that warning, as long as they <b>do</b> deliver it fairly quickly.

Of course, as usual, mileage may vary across the country.

Infinite?

Lah me......

You don't believe in POE's, do you?

Camron, I understand that. Let me clear this up a little more. As Team B was advancing the ball into the frontcourt tableside in front of Team A bench the assistant was standing the entire time. My thoughts were as I get in front of the bench, I will inform the assitant that he needs to have a seat. However, the ball was stolen right in front of me and his by Team A. This is when, I stopped the game and informed the coach his assistant needs to have a seat. So, what I am gathering from the replies. I should have waited until my next trip down to inform the coach his assistant needs to have a seat. I was already there handle it then.

some officials need this kind of black and white language however once again if my partner/s want to go by the book and insist this is an important piece of the game to manage that way I will certainly follow that however I do not feel that this is something to be managed most of the time -- like I said if the assistant is just getting up to tell timmy to hustle or pass the ball then sitting right back down I am not going to address that.

just me -- you can go ahead and do what you do and that is fine -- i do not think any less of you as an official. We just have different ways to manage games and people and what works for you might not work for me.

I have never had any issues with coaches, head or assisstant. If an assistant needs to be addressed I will at the earliest convienence. I have only T's up 2 coaches in 4 years of HS ball -- one was because of the assistant and one was the HC in a blowout because he was just frustraded and that T I tried to run from it as much as possible but hey in the end he earned it 100% no question about it.

Now let me add this disclaimer because so many people tend to read very much into things -- if the assistant is up more than the head coach or even as much as the HC then I would address it. If both HC and AC are standing I will address that. That usually gets the AC down for the whole game and most games the assistant stands up about once or twice. So in reality this isnt really an issue.

deecee, that is difference between us. I do not mind if an AD do not want to hire me again. After, the AD and I spoke about the matter and I identified to him the rule so that, he could informed his Superintendent that the team could have easily being assessed a technical. He understood why I took the approach in which I did.

However you try and justify your approach, it was still wrong. There is nothing in the rules or POE's that allows you to stop a game mid-play to issue a warning to an assistant coach. T him up or speak to him while play is going on. But don't ever blow the whistle and stop play for this. That is a very bad approach.

I got that, I understand. One question though.

Once, the official (s) warn the coach about the assitant. Is that identified in the book as an official warning?

No!! Those warnings are clearly defined in the rule book.

I do not believe in any of my responses I said I was right in my approach. If you kindly read my response to CAMRON you would see why I did it that way.

I am fully aware of that. I ask JR the question to get a better understanding on how the officials in his area handle their warning. Let, me bring you up to speed GUY!

(1) The officials in his area give the head coaches a courtesy warning in the meeting with the coaches about who is authorized to stand while the clock is running. (not required)
(2). They violate during game they issue another warning about the box. I was asking do they identify that one in the book as an official warning.

The answer will be the same. No!!!

to the best of my understanding the only warning issued in the book are the delay of game types.

Hi JR. The answer is NO. We are not ignoring the POE's in the Rule Book, and we are not playing down their importance either. We are using communication as a way to manage the situation and the game. In fact, I am one of the few officials in my Chapter and in our area that actually enforces the coaching box, and bench decorum. (Several of our more "esteemed" officials have gone as far as to chastise me for being such a stickler of the rules.)

In the example, the Asst. Coach was up coaching, for how long I don't know. If he was up for very long though, he definitely would be given a warning. How long is that? Depends on each individual official.

Personally, if I make my way up and down the floor (2-man) L to T, back to L, and I am on my way back to the T again and that Asst. Coach is still standing, I will say something to the Head Coach about their assistant(s). Next time the issue arises, they get the "T." I will admit though, that I am very hesitant to give out "T" in that situation. I would rather talk a coach out of a call like that. I know that it is the rule, but . . . that is just me.

TrueRookie . . . to answer about a coach's warning being placed in the book, the answer is no. I am aware of no specific rule which covers this issue. Some officials do this to keep a "written" log of the fact.

No, officials do not identify it as an "official" warning....mainly because the rules don't allow it to be handled that way. Our officials are simply expected to state to the coach that his assistant is not supposed to be on his feet, and that another warning will not be given. It is expected that all of our officials would then follow-up on the warning and issue the "T".

Rook, the whole idea of us setting that procedure out is so discussions exactly the same as this one will <b>not</b> take place. All officials know what is expected of them. The rules are administered evenly, consistently and fairly. All head and assistant coaches know <b>exactly</b> what they can do or not do. The FED POE's get followed.

Iow, it's really no different than most other calls imo. If you can get all your officials calling it the same way, then nobody should have any complaints....head coaches, assistant coaches, other officials. Of course, in real life, you're always gonna get an official that doesn't <b>personally</b> agree with our instructions, and he's gonna do his own thing, no matter what. That just hurts the majority imo.

The whole idea is to try and get it called uniformly and consistently by everybody in a particular area. Does that make sense?

That's the problem right there imo, Dog. Assistant coaches don't really know what to expect; there's no consistency coming from the officials. One game they might be able to wander the whole game; the next game they might get "T"d in a NY minute.

It's no different than some other calls that seem to turn up as POE's every year also. A prime example is the use of hands by a defender. Some officials call it by the POE; some officials wouldn't call it that way ever. Meanwhile, the defender doesn't know what he can get away with from game to game.

I certainly can see where rookie officials can get confused. They're getting different officials telling them to call it different ways. That's gotta be frustrating as hell.

It makes alot of sense. I just wanted to ask. Thanks;)

Almost everyone has drilled him for stopping the game for the warning (and it is all valid) but what about the AD after the game questions him because it was the Super's husband. I don't care if it was the Bill Clinton, if the AD is going to come at me after the game with this bullsh*t I would do myself a favor and not work there again.

We had the same thing a couple of years ago where our mayor coached his son's 7th grade team, he didn't bother me I lived in the county!

Wow, I read through this whole thread and got confused; I had to look back and see if Truerookie was the OP or Deecee was the OP.
If something is a POE every year there is a reason for it. Bigdog, apparently the Federation has determined it necessary to make this part of a POE. Communication must have failed. As stated earlier, there isn't consistency with how bench decorum is handled. Stopping the game is not the answer. I would just mention something to the head coach in passing and continue on my way. IMO, talking to an assistant coach is out of the question - for the most (99%) of the time I will talk to an assistant coach when they become a head coach. Oh, I will greet them before games and tell them where the ball will be put into play during a timeout. That is about it.
Wow, two (2) T's in four years. Did you say something like you tried to avoid one of those two? I find it hard to believe an official can officiate for four years and only come across two coaches that earn technical fouls. I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying you are very fortunate...or you should have given out more T's.

True rookie, You could have stopped the game at any point before they stole the ball. Why did you blow your whistle when they had a steal and possible break away? The next dead ball could have been a more appropriate time. Was the coach or the bench warned before that point. Just IMO. I'm sure there are different ways that it could have been handled..

While others have (correctly) told you that there is no official warning under FED rules, you should check with your local area / state to be sure. Last year, for example, IL *did* have an official warning for the HC being out fo the box.

And, while Jurassic gave you the POE, I'm sure many officials will continue to use the "wave, warn, whack" phiolosophy to handle the problem.

to TrueRookie...
 

Haven't read the entire thread so you may have already answered this, but why stop game action to give a warning? If it was blatant/obvious enough to warrant stopping play, then I say it warrants a 'T'. If you felt it only warranted a warning or quick comment from you, then you wait for a stoppage of play or when you are in front of his/her bench.

But you are arguing both sides of the coin. You say the POE/rule say "no standing" for assistant coaches but you then ignore the proper penalty phase of the POE/rule.

Last year assn's in VA were given that option. This year there is no option for a warning.

My point of view, first of all, it's an 8th grade game. As long as the coach is up coaching and not being a butt, I don't have a huge problem with him. I would definitely NOT stop the game to sit him down unless I did it with a T. In this situation, I would take a second and tell the HC that I understand his assistant is coaching, but we need him on the bench. If he continues to get up, use the whistle and sit him down. Another thing to remember is that this is an 8th grade assistant. This is not the more professional coach you get at higher levels. He probably just got excited and wasn't thinking. Try to talk your way out of it if you can. Now, if an assistant at any level stands up to complain, whack them on site.

It's an 8th grade game so you aren't going to enforce the bench rule, that is stupid. So when the next referee has him and he tells him to sit down he will say Junker let me stand up! It is against the rules in a 1st grade game and a HS game, enforce the rule.

It's not stupid and I didn't say don't enforce bench decorum. What I said was he stood to coach. Remind him to sit and move on. It's 8th grade and those players need to be coached. They are learning to play the game. If you read carefully I stated that if he's up complaining, take care of business immediately. To officiate well I think you have to develop game managment skills. If you are out there T'ing up an 8th grade assistant for trying to teach his players without asking him to sit first, you are going to be on that 8th grade game for quite some time.

My favorite issue
 

I like this thread. The issue of bench management. At Assoc. meetings we get the spiel from the Varsity refs about enforcing the "box". Lots of time spent on it. Us newer officials need to take charge of the benches and learn game management skills. Yada, yada,yada. I always hang round after my games and watch the Varsity guys. 85% have NO control of the box/benches. I have seen it all. Coaches rolling on the floor,on their knees begging for calls, running onn the court during a time out to yell at the ref. Basically everything up to and including doing a Linda Blair in public. And little if nothing is done about it. Rant off....
So last year I started working on communicating better and ENFORCING the box rules more consistently. Lo and behold my games were better played and my perception was they were more manageble. And ironically the better I communicated and ENFORCED the box rules the higher my ratings were. The varsity refs were like living vicariously through me.
***'t coaches get no leeway from me. I read somewher on this board they are to be considered the van driver. Seen and not heard.

I will admit that I Had 1 ***'t coach solve major head coach problem for me. The head coach was on the way out the door-1 T already and it was my early season generoisty that kept him from a 2nd. ***'t intervened asked me to give him 1 minute before allowing the coach to get himself Teed a 2 nd time. I did and didn't hear a peep from either one the rest of the night.

Junker this is what you wrote: My point of view, first of all, it's an 8th grade game. As long as the coach is up coaching and not being a butt, I don't have a huge problem with him.

It doesn't matter if he is coaching or complaining, he should be sitting.

Agreed, he needs to be on the bench. I must have been unclear. If he's up coaching his players, I'll ask the HC to get him on the bench. If he's up complaining, I'll sit him down with a T. Assistants are there to coach and as an esteemed forum member always states, we have to talk to Batman, but not Robin. My main point was that I would never stop the game to give a warning in a situation like this.

tome I hardly ever have any issues in my high school games. i make my line known clear and early. I think the 5 T's ive called in 4 years is a lot. I mean a T should be earned and most Ts can be avoided with preventative officiating.

you make a tough call and you know its tough and the last 3 similarly tough calls all went against the same coach -- well i report and I stay away from him -- why? because experience has taught me HE WILL BE man and if he wants to say something to me he will have to say it loud enough where its not just him and me that hear it.

There are some magic comments and words that will get them rung up asap but once again I have something working for me that helps -- size -- I dont intimidate but a lot of coaches are about half a foot to a foot shorter -- IMO it helps a lot when you are taller -- other reasons too.

If you are officiating an eighth-grade game early in the season, be aware that you may run into inexpereinced coaches. A short meeting before the game to establish the ground rules is wise here, especially if you don't know the coaches involved. "I see you have two coaches on the bench. Who is the head coach? Ok, remember that you're the only one permitted to stand during the game according to the rules," etc.

Be prepared and you won't be surprised.

As far as the super-intendent question by the AD, I would have asked the AD why he had coaches that don't know the rule book. I guess I wouldn't be working there again, LOL.

I do agree with you here, you made it clear for me.

All who replied,
Thanks for the vast knowledge given on this subject. At no time, I said the way I handle the situation was ideal. I had a situation and I handle it based on the level of experience I have. I now have additional tools in which I can use in my officiating toolbox. I wanted to share a situation I encountered with fellow officials. :)

My BS flag is flying higher than ever! You know why this is BS? Because the T's I call don't have anything to do with something that I can prevent. What am I supposed to do to prevent unsporting behavior? Someone said something (in this thread or another) about a coach being on his knees or running out on to the floor. What do you do to prevent that? What do I do to prevent a kid from saying my partner's call is BS? If the assistant mentioned got up and complained to the official, what could be done to prevent that from happening?

I have got to be misunderstanding you. Yep, that's it, I don't understand what you are saying.

True Rookie, I commend you for sharing... I've been officiating for 6 season, start my 7th. I have a log book of issue that I have experienced for every game I have officiated or watcthed and dated. I can tell you from 6 years that I have completed I almost have 3 composition books completed and I don't have a one repeat issue in there so it goes to show you we can learn something everyday whether you have 2 years or 20, trust me.

Good Luck!

Maybe I am just different but I can for see a possible volatile situation on the horizon and attempt to fix it before it gets there. Thats just me.

A player says my partnerscall was bullpoop and well that will get him a T.

I have seen many Ts given that in my opinion shouldn't have because

a) the officials didnt try and defuse anything that led up to the T
b) the officials put themselves in those situations to give the T rather than reading the situation -- referring to the you know the coach is pissed so you report and just give him a look like 'what now?' -- aka leading
c) overly judicious officials
d) officials with no common sense

most T's I have seen have fallen under those categories. I can remember all 5 T's I have given

1 -- player just shoves an opponent in the back during a screen away from the ball (flagrant was to harsh -- I thought maybe even the T was to harsh since the player only was moved about a foot --but the T had to be called because the game was going down the wrong direction)
2 -- double T during jump ball -- player getting up from on top the player gently nudges the player below him who gets up and shoves him back.
3 -- coach getting blown out was frustrated and for 1 whole quarter was just being a pain in the a$$ -- i tried to reason but when that failed I hated to but at least it got him sitting and quiet
4 -- my partner makes a call and is walking away and coach says "what a horsepoop call and everyone knows it" -- I waited a second to see if my partner heard it so he could deal with it then I dealt with it.
5 -- Player passes the ball to the 6th player in the 3rd row of the bleacher and gets upset with himself so he yells out "f___" well it was loud enough for me to hear it about 10 feet away (couldve probably heard it 20 feet away) so it cost him.

SO there I was wrong 6 total T's in 4 years. All I am saying when you start getting those cheap shots in your game and players elbowing and shoving its because YOU didnt set them straight with how YOU were going to call the game. as an official a game gets out of control because of YOU not the players -- you know a game will be physical nip it early -- "Hands off red" next time you have to say that *tweet* foul -- this goes for post play away from the ball -- off ball calls helps a lot. Next thing you know the players that play overly aggressive now have a couple fouls early and have to adjust. You let blue shove red in the post now red think he can shove blue back -- now THEY push the line back because you were not firm.

You can prevent a lot of T's by being aware of the game -- you notice 2 players getting physical tell them to knock it off lound enough so they both hear you -- dead ball get up in their face and tell them to cut it out. Now start blowing your whistle. If these same 2 players somehow get "entangled up" and its close enough to be either one -- double foul. Its always best however to get the FIRST offense but once two players are at it give em both a foul. THEY WILL ADJUST. By the time you have to give the T you have lost control.

so you can prevent unsporting behavior in many instances...

as for the coaches you can only really WORK with those that some some sort of reason and common sense built into them -- otherwise you are wasting your time -- my 2 cents.

Yes.

AD: what happened with the Superintendent husband?
ME: who is that?
AD: the coach, you told he could not be up off the bench.
ME: Right...and?
AD: That was the Superintendent's husband she is upset that you told her husband to take a seat.
ME: She'll get over it. Where's my check?

There are states, and local associations, that mandate that a warning be placed in the book when a coach is warned for any type of bench issue.

If you read the rest of that same post, his position becomes more clear. By truncating his remarks, you've changed his meaning.

Junker, you were clear.

Deecee,

That is good reading. I didn't have any popcorn, but I did have some pretzels! It seems like you are speaking with 4 years of experience and IMO that isn't enough (in this case). I don't know if you've been in enough situations.

Donnee Gray always says he can help an official reduce the amount of T's they give but he can't give someone the courage to call a T.
Keep in mind, there is a difference between communication and letting a coach get away with anything. The bottom line is it sounds like you are stroking players and coaches too much instead of breaking them off a T. But that is just my 2 cents. :D

I was trail, opposite.
Last night's V assistant (head JV coach) took an extended walk [about a minute], to the endline (that's where the water jug was) on his way down he was coaching, then stopped near the jug coaching. Partner called a foul, I switched and reminded the assistant that this was a close game and that I didn't want to see it get ugly cuz he was off the bench. He knowingly smiled and said "Okay".

That's a perfect example of what the right thing to do is. No need to stop a play and make a big scene out of it just for a warning. Everyone wins.

Donnee Gray is a wise man.

Contrary to what some officials seem to believe, in the vast majority of cases when a technical foul gets called, it isn't the official's fault. You're not a failure as an official if you do have to call one. It's simply a reaction to an unsporting act, a technical violation of some sort or a player just doing something stupid- like hanging on the rim. It's also just another call.

i cannot agree more with this -- kudos

seems like my comment of most Ts can be avoided doesnt matter because most relate to game management on the official.

in these instances there is no management needed and thanks for pointing out that it's also just another call -- I thought it was a spiritual ritual done when the moon is half waning in the fourth quarter of the systemic cycle....

Agree....and you just posted two examples where a technical foul couldn't and shouldn't be called, by rule. In both #1 & 2 above, you had live-ball contact fouls. Those are <b>personal</b> fouls of some type, <b>never</b> a technical foul. Technical fouls are <b>dead-ball</b> contact fouls. A shove in the back during a screen is <b>personal</b> foul. And a nudge immediately followed by retaliation during a jump ball would be a double <b>personal</b> foul.

You control the game by calling intentional or flagrant <b>personal</b> fouls if the play is getting too rough. Elbowing, pushing and shoving during play are personal fouls, not technical fouls.

Just wanted to straighten out the technicalities, not the technicals. :)

HA HA! JR, do you have this guy hypnotized? I have been trying to tell this guy the same thing all day and he has been explaining to me how I should manage a game. You tell him the same thing, using a quote from me no less (not saying that you needed the quote after 100 years :D), and he immediately agrees.

Hmm, maybe the last part of his post is sarcasm. I hope it is at least.

Priceless!

I have no idea whether it's sarcasm or not, Tom. I quoted you because I pretty-much agreed with everything that you said re: technical fouls, and I was basically just re-inforcing your thoughts.

I have to disagree with this. I have always been told that you always address the head coach. The head coach is responsible for his bench so I make it a practice to address any bench issues with the head coach.

I agree with Smitty & others - not something I'd stop the game for. And it's not something I would address directly with the assistant either. By rule the head coach is responsible for conduct of bench personnel & should get the warning. Keep it short & to the point - a simple "Coach, only one coach can stand." or "Coach, you need to get your bench under control." quickly & clearly gets the message across.

And as Smitty said, remember this is an 8th grade game. The odds are overwhelming that they haven't read the rule book or may not even have one. I'd treat it first as a teaching opportunity - if they don't listen you always have the penalty to fall back on.

IMHO a big part of good game management is effective communications - with your partner, table crew, players & coaches. Knowing when and how to warn or penalize is a critical component of this.

Just got back from our annual meeting. The term 'reminder' was used for this sort of situation. It is also something they want us to cover in the pre-game with captains and coaches present. It is not one of the 4 'warnings' in the rule book.