Good idea....or too intrusive?

[Danvrapp]

Ok. It's offseason, I'm bored, and there hasn't been much excitement on the board lately. So, I was sitting at the computer tonight and started thinking: if you were a HS (Frosh, JV, or V) basketball coach, would you be interested in having a certified ref come to a practice or two to ref a scrimmage or such?

I could think of several benefits for the team, such as hearing of the new rules, explainations of old rules, and getting an idea of how the game will be called (mainly for younger players).

I though this would also give me a good tune up for the season since most of the stuff I've done over the summer was younger-kid-stuff. Maybe you people who have been doing this for several years think I'm crazy and you don't need a refresher, but I thought it should put me in the right frame of mind for JV/V ball.

I also thought it might be a good way to get to know the coaches in more of an informal atmosphere. Of course, it also might be asking for trouble and hassle from coaches, and an excuse for players to go off on a ref with no repercussions. On top of that, I don't even know if it would be "legal."

Whadayathink?

[BktBallRef]

It's not legal this time of year, at least where I live. Teams can attend a summer camp or play in a summer league. But at this point, practice can't begin until Nov. 1

Once practice starts, we are required to work scrimmages. Prior to each team's first scrimmage, we gather informally and explain the rule changes. We also answer any questions they have.

[Love2ref4Ever]

I officiate non-league and scrimmages every year it is a good way to shake off the rust,it is also a good way to pick up some extra cash. all though I have one school who owes me $400.00 from last season I still think it is a good idea.Maybe now that school has open I can get my cash.

[ChuckElias]

You get paid for doing scrimmages? We get nothing. Not even for college scrimmages sometimes. (The colleges around here typically try to slip you $35 for a scrimmage, but that's not guaranteed.) High school scrimmages are always unpaid, although everybody on the board is expected to do at least 2 each preseason. What's the going rate for the scrimmages where you are?

Chuck

[JAdams]

Here in SW Ohio, each team is allowed up to five pre-season scrimmages. Most teams use them all. It is strongly suggested that each of us refs volunteer to work a scrimmage or two. Most of the time we don't get paid anything, but some of the associations around here "recommend" that the home coach pass us $10 or so for gas money (most don't). However, coaches generally do appreciate our working their scrimmages, and it's a good chance to tug on the whistle a little before the real games begin. Often it's a lot of work, particularly if there are only two of us and the teams alternate quarters between varsity and JV.

[Brian Watson]

We get as little at a pat on the back to usually around 10 bucks. Last year one school did pay us a normal game check, but it was a heck of a scrimmage.

4 teams, 5 officials, and I think we ran like 15 or 16 quarters.

[Danvrapp]

So how do you get these games? Do you each send a little letter to coaches saying "Hey, let's all work out the rust and I'll work a few scrimmages for ya," or do coaches go to assigners who in turn find officials? I was thinking of a brief little letter, and sending it to just a few local HS's.

[Brian Watson]

Some through assigners, most through the old sign up sheets at local meetings.

[dblref]

In the Northern Virginia area, schools are allowed (I believe) 6-8 "quarters" of scrimmage with another team. Some schools use all 6-8 quarters in one scrimmage and some have more than one scrimmage. We do not get paid for these scrimmages and we are encouraged to work 2 boys and 2 girls scrimmages. There are scrimmages at Frosh/JV/V level and this is one time that a "non-varsity" official can usually work at least one "varsity" scrimmage. In fact, we usually do these as 3-person crews to refresh/learn 3-person. For most scrimmages, we usually have 4-6 officials and we rotate quarters. All scrimmages are assigned by the lady that does all assignments (she does an excellent job). We are not allowed to schedule scrimmages and games (high school) on our own.

[Love2ref4Ever]

Here in New York City you usually make your contacts depending on your relationship with the coach{former student,coaches has seen you around etc.) Most High School varsity coaches here in the city usually will look for someone who is considered a good official.(joke) We usually recieve a game fee, here in NYC varsity officials recieve $86.00 and JV officials recieve $65.00.Usually when two schools decide they want to play each other one school brings there own ref and the home school has there own ref. It is usually cash on the spot. This year though if it is not cash on the spot, I will be selective about who I take non-league games from. Since there is a school that owes me $400.00.

[Richard Ogg]

Scrimmages here are free and through the association. Last year our association collected the list from schools, then chose an evaluator for each date. Then there were sign-ups at one of the meetings -- three ref's plus the evaluator. We were "encouraged" to work at least twice, where we took turns on the court by quarter and received feedback from the evaluator. (We have a board of evaluators composed of our higher-rated officials.) I worked three dates and will take as many as I can get. The practice is good for anti-rust, and the feedback is (generally) helpful.

BTW, we also hold a coaches meeting at the beginning of the year to talk about rule changes and POE. We distribute to each school our listing of their games, providing them a chance to check for errors. (We want to avoid games with no ref's.) Those schools who do not show up for the meeting are last on the list to have their scrimmages supported. Since we do not have enough officials anyway....

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
It's not legal this time of year, at least where I live. Teams can attend a summer camp or play in a summer league. But at this point, practice can't begin until Nov. 1

Once practice starts, we are required to work scrimmages. Prior to each team's first scrimmage, we gather informally and explain the rule changes. We also answer any questions they have.

How is it required? I am just curious, because that would be hard in my next of the woods to make it a requirement. Is it required by the state or your official's association?

[Richard Ogg]

Originally posted by JRutledge
How is it required?

My guess is it is "required" just like we are "encouraged" to do this. If you do not, then it is perceived that you are unsupportive of your association. That probably means you are called upon in emergencies to fill in where needed but otherwise will not be working much (not that this is ever explicitly stated...).

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge

How is it required? I am just curious, because that would be hard in my next of the woods to make it a requirement. Is it required by the state or your official's association?

In NC, your rating, Class 1, 2 ,3 or 4, is based on a point system. Only Class 1 and 2 officials can work holiday or post season tournaments. A Class 1 has at least 90 points and a Class 2 has at least 80 points. You also have to make 90 or better, or 80 or better, respectively to achieve those classifications.

Now to scrimmages. If you work 3 scrimmages, you receive 12 points toward your rating. You also get points for attending local clinics, the state rules meeting, working varsity games, experience, and your exam score. Most officials can't afford to lose the easy 12 points that you get by working scrimmages. An official who misses his scrimmages, gets all his other points and makes 89 on the exam will end up as a Class 3 official.

Also, you will receive an assignment sheet for scrimmages. If you don't show up, it's the same as not showing up for a game. The fine is double the scrimmage fee, which would be $50. Schools pay $25 for a 2 hour scrimmage. Instead of dividing up $25 between 5 to 10 people, we simply deposit scrimmage fees in our associations treasury.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Richard Ogg

My guess is it is "required" just like we are "encouraged" to do this. If you do not, then it is perceived that you are unsupportive of your association. That probably means you are called upon in emergencies to fill in where needed but otherwise will not be working much (not that this is ever explicitly stated...).

Well the problem with an association, "requiring" us to a scrimmage is very difficult in my area. Not all schools have scrimmages or could get officials to do them. We are just so independent here, it is kind of hard to make requirements like that.