(H)air Controller.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I guess I will have to take my chances

"It's choice - not chance - that determines your destiny."
-- Jean Nidetch

You take your chances. I choose to know the rule and enforce it. It's worked okay for me so far.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

"It's choice - not chance - that determines your destiny."
-- Jean Nidetch

You take your chances. I choose to know the rule and enforce it. It's worked okay for me so far.

I did not say what works for me or what works for you. I have never had someone make a big deal over something like this. I even had a playoff game this past season where one of the schools from a poor area had one of the players with the wrong colored shorts. We did ask the coach about it and when it was clear there was no remedy (the school did not have money to buy a uniform for all the players and a player that was about 6'8), we made sure the other coach was aware and we played the game without applying the rules to the letter. So when you say you would not allow a string to be used, my point is how would you know the string is not elastic? I know I am not going to ask for verification. When in doubt, it is legal (at least when it comes to a hair piece like this).

Peace

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Does anyone have their rulebook with them today? I left mine at home. I hate the fashion police rules and do not read that section of the rule book with the same care that I do the rest of the rules. Honestly, if it isn't something that is a distraction or an injury risk, I am not going to worry about the hair strings as Jurassic described them. Not one bit.

OK. Let me ask you this question:

A hair string you have allowed a player to wear falls off without you seeing it. Next trip down, a player slips on that piece of string, hits her head or has a neck injury. Who will they hold responsible?

I know this is an almost non issue, but just remember the story about the two junior high refs a few years ago. Let a kid wear a rubber band, it snapped, hit another kid in the eye (blinding him in that eye) and they paid half a million each!

Food for thought!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

OK. Let me ask you this question:

A hair string you have allowed a player to wear falls off without you seeing it. Next trip down, a player slips on that piece of string, hits her head or has a neck injury. Who will they hold responsible?

I know this is an almost non issue, but just remember the story about the two junior high refs a few years ago. Let a kid wear a rubber band, it snapped, hit another kid in the eye (blinding him in that eye) and they paid half a million each!

Food for thought!

I am not a lawyer, but the question I would want to know did they ask the coaches, "Are your player's properly equip and ready to play?" BTW, rubber bands are legal. The same thing could happen with all kinds of hair piece holders that fit the rules to the letter. I do not know anyone inspecting every hair piece holder before any game.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I even had a playoff game this past season where one of the schools from a poor area had one of the players with the wrong colored shorts. We did ask the coach about it and when it was clear there was no remedy (the school did not have money to buy a uniform for all the players and a player that was about 6'8), we made sure the other coach was aware and we played the game without applying the rules to the letter.

What rule would you apply?

There's never been any rule in any NFHS rule book concerning the color of the shorts afaik. There sureasheck isn't one in the NFHS book now afaik either.

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not a lawyer, but the question I would want to know did they ask the coaches, "Are your player's properly equip and ready to play?" BTW, rubber bands are legal. The same thing could happen with all kinds of hair piece holders that fit the rules to the letter. I do not know anyone inspecting every hair piece holder before any game.

Peace

Well, I have to tell you, it is our responsibility to ensure that all of the players conform. I am sure that the coaches try to make this possible, but you know kids. I have P***** off many a parent by not letting little Sally wear an illegal brace that the "doctor" said was legal. I was the only referee during the time she had that brace that made her take it off (it WAS illegal by the way; hard plastic and a very sharp edge)

I even had one player that consistently disregarded the coaches instructions as to a hair beret behind her ponytail. I always looked (and you had to to see it) and I always had to tell her to take it off.

Legally, if we have done all we can (and can prove it, one of those nasty legal terms), then we can be held harmless.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Me too, Z, me too...but I was asked a specific question, which I brought here to get more opinions.

Understood Jurassic. That's why I asked if anyone had their rulebook with them cuz' I wanted to know the letter of the law too (even if I don't planning on enforcing it that tight).

As far as someone slipping on a piece of string. Hmmmmmmmmm... There is a greater chance of a player slipping on a little piece of glitter of a cheerleaders pom pom that was so small that we didn't see it. Oh brother. A knee brace is a different story because that is an obvious injury risk.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

... but just remember the story about the two junior high refs a few years ago. Let a kid wear a rubber band, it snapped, hit another kid in the eye (blinding him in that eye) and they paid half a million each!

Food for thought!

Got a link?

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Got a link?

Long time ago. Will have to look.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

Well, I have to tell you, it is our responsibility to ensure that all of the players conform. I am sure that the coaches try to make this possible, but you know kids. I have P***** off many a parent by not letting little Sally wear an illegal brace that the "doctor" said was legal. I was the only referee during the time she had that brace that made her take it off (it WAS illegal by the way; hard plastic and a very sharp edge)

The reason we ask the question to the coaches about their players being properly equip, is to let us know if any of their players have issues that would be considered illegal. Then we can hold the coaches responsible for putting kids onto the floor that are not wearing legal equipment. Remember, we only see the kids for a short time. The coaches see the kids every day and see what they wear in practice. Even in warm-ups, we may not see the player's entire uniform to know what they are wearing is legal or illegal. It is not like players actually play the game in warm-ups.

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

I even had one player that consistently disregarded the coaches instructions as to a hair beret behind her ponytail. I always looked (and you had to to see it) and I always had to tell her to take it off.

Well you have the right to pull a kid off the court when you notice something like that. I can tell you that beads can be hard to see when the beads that players put in there hair match the hair color of the player. I have gone several minutes during games, only to finally get up close to a player during the game to see something that was not easily visible during warm-ups. The coach is in the locker-room with that kid, we see them only during warm-ups. Something like a string might not even be something we can see. And if we see it, I am not going to go through a lot of histrionics to test the elasticity of this item.

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

Legally, if we have done all we can (and can prove it, one of those nasty legal terms), then we can be held harmless.

This is no different than a sexual harassment case. A business is not liable if they were never informed or never witnessed issues of sexual harassment it is hard to hold that business or the people involved liable without proper information being given to the proper people. As I said, I am not a lawyer and I am not aware of the case you are talking about or the issues that the court had to deal with (which might not be exactly about the rubber bands). I know that you have to be considered negligent before you can lose a case like this. I know black rubber bands are very hard to see on kids that have black hair. And rubber bands are legal. So I do not know how an official always knows of potential issues like this unless we go and inspect every kid with our hands to figure out what is elastic and what is not.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

I have P***** off many a parent by not letting little Sally wear an illegal brace that the "doctor" said was legal. I was the only referee during the time she had that brace that made her take it off (it WAS illegal by the way; hard plastic and a very sharp edge)

That is a legal brace if it's properly covered, padded, etc. It's usually up to the official's discretion, but if it's covered or padded so that it can't cut or abrade another player, I'll allow them to be worn. NFHS rule 3-5-2(c) and casebook play 3.5SitA.

[Jurassic Referee]

Follow up question.....

Is the use of pre-wrap legal under NFHS rules to control the hair?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That is a legal brace if it's properly covered, padded, etc. It's usually up to the official's discretion, but if it's covered or padded so that it can't cut or abrade another player, I'll allow them to be worn. NFHS rule 3-5-2(c) and casebook play 3.5SitA.

BTW...I would never make a player take off a brace or item of clothing/jewelry or tell them to take it off. I do not have that authority or responsibility. All I'll do is tell the coach his player can't play with it on or properly covered if appropriate. How they handle it from there is not my concern. It aint gonna be because of me that someone removed a brace & injured themselves.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

BTW...I would never make a player take off a brace or item of clothing/jewelry or tell them to take it off. I do not have that authority or responsibility. All I'll do is tell the coach his player can't play with it on or properly covered if appropriate. How they handle it from there is not my concern. It aint gonna be because of me that someone removed a brace & injured themselves.

Good point. All we're supposed to do really is inspect it and OK it as being legal or not.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Good point. All we're supposed to do really is inspect it and OK it as being legal or not.

Oh. What a disappointment.

I was looking forward to getting into another pissing match with you.

btw...how we gonna handle changing 3 point shots to 2 point shots tonight? I don't think we need to huddle...OK?