Good job FIBA officials
 

I think the FIBA officials have been outstanding. They have been very consistent. They allow contact that doesn't really affect the play. They make the calls that need to be called. They are really consistent on both ends of the floor. The offensive foul calls are consistent. You don't hear fans crying "We were robbed!' like you do in NCAA and NBA games. They call the game fairly and do not become bigger than the game. Give the FIBA refs some love !!!

You were doing great until you hit that one. I just don't believe that for a minute.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how good a job the officials do in any game in any sport at any level anywhere in the world. Fans are still gonna whine and moan and complain about the officiating. Without exception. If you want to become an official, you just accept that.

Dave, the officials at this year's Wold Championship could be doing the greatest job of officiating basketball in the history of the game, and the fans will still be crying a helluva lot more worse things at them than "we wuz robbed". Trust me.:)

Are you on dope?

Saw a play in the USA-Germany game where a USA player rebounded the ball. The German player cam down on his back. The whistle blew, the USA player then faked and went up and laid the ball in. The L counted the basket. Give me a frickin' break.

Come on, Tony. You can't judge the entire tournament's officiating by one bad continuation call. I haven't watched enough of the tournament to have an informed opinion either way; but I do know that one call doesn't make an entire staff good or bad.

What if that one call was your last call ?

Chuck, don't read so much into one reply. I simply remarked on one bad example that I saw. My "on dope" comment was in response to Dave's obvious attack on NCAA and NBA officials. I haven't made any attempt to judge the overall officiating. Get a grip, shorty.

It probably still doesn't make you good or bad, although it's what everybody will remember. But for sure, it doesn't make the whole staff bad.

Ok, I can accept that, but it's sure not what it sounds like. It sounds like Dave said the officiating was good. You said he was on dope and gave the reason for thinking the officiating was not good.

Sorry if I mis-read you, but that really is how it sounds.

Thermopylae
 

From Sport Center's review of missed three-point shots, it was easy to see five the Greek defenders in the paint while the attackers were elsewhere.

Two things:

#1 Does anyone care about this team or the World Championships in the USA...NO! We care about the NCAA Tournament and some of us care about the NBA Playoffs (far less than the NCAA Tourney!)

#2 Does anyone care if the FIBA guys are doing good or if they suck...most couldn't find their way onto a Divsion III college game.

First, I didn't say he was on dope. I asked him if he was on dope. You obviously misread that too. :)

Second, I guess you think I'm not smart enough to know ""that one call doesn't make an entire staff good or bad." :(

Sorry if I mis-read you, but that really is how it sounds. :)

I do know that. That's why I said, "Come on". It sounded like an over-reaction and I was trying to talk you down from the ledge. :)

Are you serious??? Those officials working at that level are excellent officials -they have done World Championships, Olympics, etc., and you think they aren't good enough to do D-III????

Hey Tony, here's the guy who is on dope!!!

Yes, that is what I am saying, the whole world is far behind most of our college officials, maybe I was a little harsh on the D III thing. These are not the best officials in the world by any stretch!!!

RockyRoad, if you moved to Ireland even you could work the Worlds and the Olympics!

Many of the FIBA-certified refs in the US are NBA or NCAA D1 refs. I know this for a fact. Maybe not all, but many.

I am talking about the non-USA born officials working these games.

You actually think most of the non USA FIBA officials can walk in and start working top D-1, D-League, or the NBA games???

So the score is 1-1-1. There's one on dope, one who hasn't replied to my question and one short one that needs to be on some sort of dope, so he doesn't overly analyze things.

I agree that they were mostly consistent on what was called, but the problem I had was how they called all over the court. The Lead official would call a foul no matter where the ball was. It seemed like there was a lot of ball watching and calling out of the area.

I watched the game with the USA and Greece live. The USA got beat fair and square and that game was called very well in my opinion. I just think that there were things I could not understand why they were being called by certain by certain officials? Then there was a play were Himerick (sp?) shot a 3 point shot and was creamed well after the ball was gone by the Greece center (THE BIG BLACK GUY :D). I was wondering, who is watching the shooter?

It was obvious from early game that they were not allowing a lot of contact and most of the officials were very consistent in calling the game that way. I know I have walked away from watching not having any idea what mechanics are being used as it relates to coverages. Many times the Lead would call a foul on players almost outside the 3 point line on the opposite side of the lane.

Peace

I don't think you should call DJ "short".

I was at a camp earlier this summer and one of the clinicians was a FIBA ref from Canada. Yes, he could work any level in the U.S. In fact, many of the D-1 teams go up into Canada and play Canada teams and he has worked many, many of those games. He's worked a couple semifinal games in the Olympics too.

One of the other clinicians at that camp is a D-1 ref and he has worked some of those D-1 vs. Canadian teams with the Canadian FIBA ref. He has huge respect for his game and said he'd work <b>any</b> game with him.

Z

Well, there's one that I disagree with completely also.

Congratulations, you just sh!t on some of the best officials in the world. Whatever happened to the "Brotherhood of Officials", Ron?

Dude, RockyRoad has officiated in an NCAA Womens Final. Wtf have <b>you</b> refereed in?

Why?:confused: <i></i>

Hey - whatever happened to the "brotherhood of short officials"??? How come I got drug into this??? (Oops, probably shouldn't have used the word "drug" right there).

Rocky only refereed there cuz there werem't no jobs in his state that day.

Shhhh...that was supposed to be a secret, Mick...guess if I want any good games this winter I'm gonna have to move to Ireland!!

I'm not on dope! I just didn't have a chance to get on the computer today. All I'm saying is I think the FIBA refs have been very consistent and managed the games very well. You don't see the constant whining and crying like you do in every NBA game and many college games. Even the USA fans I've talked to had no problem with the way the game was called against Greece. When is the last time an NBA team lost a playoff game and there weren't ten thousand people on the internet blasting the officials for "screwing us outta that game!". I work overnight so when I get off work, I am able to catch all the games on TV. I've watched quite a few of them and enjoyed the games very much. I feel like the officials are working hard and calling a fair game. Sure they miss a few, we all do, but the refs are solid for the most part and stay in the background. You don't see the refs becoming bigger than the game like you do at times in the NBA. There wasn't a single game in the Spurs/Mavericks or Mavericks/Heat or Pistons/Heat that didn't have major controversies.

Greece had a player slide over and attempt to draw a player control foul against Dwayne Wade. He was called for the block. He just calmly got up and raised his hand even though it was a very close call. It is refreshing to watch..

Well said! Nothing like being narrow minded, and boy, you are good at it!

PS If you can find your way onto a Division III college game, than you can bet most of the rest of the world can too.

I agree that the referees at WC overall did a very, very good job.

I don't know if this was Dave's intention, but it sounds to me like he is saying that poor refereeing is indeed the cause of the spectator's complaining. Sport is an emotional affair, and by that also irrational to an extent. Some, or even many, will complain about officials if their team loses, even if the officiating was not controversial. The level and intensity of *****ing and moaning is more to do with the level of the competition and the importance of the game, than the actual quality of refereeing.

It's not very professional to try and make your point by sh!tting on another group of officials.

Methinks you and Ron Ref might have a lot in common.

Everyone remembers the Polish ref from 1972, although possibly not by name.

JMO, but I think you may have narrowed the field as to who the board jumper is.

And I did an image search for JMO and came up with this....
http://www.newciv.org/pic/nl/artpic/241/156/jmo$.gif

DUH! Have you considered that's because nobody gives a $hit about this?

Hello!
Some of refs working in the World Championship in Japan are some of the best referees in the world.
I have no doubt about it. I have seen NBA, NCAA, Euroleague and FIBA games and I think FIBA referees are outstanding.
And I think also that some of the refs in the World Championship could easily work in the NBA.
Some of them are better than the majority of NBA referees.
We have to see that the rules are diferent and the level of contact permited in the game is diferent also. So the "strange" things that some of you refer are only the FIBA interpretations that are given to the refs. Ed F. Rush is a good example. One of the best NBA referees and works in the FIBA WC alongside some other outstanding referees. There is no visible diference.
But guys like Brazauskas, Fachini, Arteaga, Martin Bertran, Carlos Renato dos Santos, Sudek, Belosevic and Zavlanos are at the level of Steve Javie, Danny Crawford, Joe Crawford, Dick Bevetta, Ed F. Rush and Bennet Salvatore.
And some of the FIBA referees are not professional referees and in the NBA everyone is a full time professional.
Thanks for your time.

Sorry to have ruffled feathers here. I didn't know it was that big of a deal. Also, I'm not ****ting on another group of referees to make a point as another poster said. ALL I'M SAYING is: I am looking at this championship from a basketball FAN'S point of view, not as a referee. I am also an NBA FAN. When I watched the NBA playoffs, I saw controversy in every game. In the WC games, it seems like the players just play the game and let the referees do their job. It could work in the NBA too, but the mentality of players and fans causes every game to have a lot of controversy. I'm not saying the refs are good or bad in either league. I am saying that I like the LEVEL OF CONTACT ALLOWED IN FIBA, compared to the NBA. I don't like seeing Dirk Nowitski or Dwayne Wade on the foul line to win games in the final seconds on touchy foul calls. I would rather see the games called much more like international play. The games have a nice flow to them and I enjoy watching. I like the way the FIBA refs manage the game as well.....that's all.....excuse me for living !!!!!!!!!!!! DAMN !

Sorry partner, but if you think the FIBA guys are on the level with the top NBA officials, then you show a tremendous lack of credibilty. No offense intended, JMHO. You haven't seen the game played with the same passion as the NBA playoffs, nor have you seen the same passion from the fans. And if you truly think that there's controversy in every NBA playoff game, then you truly have a lot to learn about officiating.

Sorry, I guess I've been enjoying these games without realizing how poor the officiating really has been. I'll watch closer during the championship game this morning. Call me dumb ! I thought they were doing a good job.....guess not!

Lack pf credibility why, BKTBALLREF???
Have you ever seen a game in Greece? Like Panathinaikos-Olympiakos??? Do you know how Greek fans react during the game? A NBA game compared with that is a child´s play.
You can find real pressure in Europe. And refs in Europe react well to that, working always in a very good manner.
Your opinion is narrowminded, and shows a lack of knowledge about international basketball. There´s passion and pressure everywhere.
Some of the NBA refs are very, very good but some of the FIBA officials are at the same level.
But that´s my opinion, of course.
By the way, i am watching the final of the WC, and the american ref is the worse referee that i saw in the WC. Bad calls, call called to the wrong guy, a backcourt violation called by the C referee when he was the Trail ref and did not blow the whistle, etc. Ed F. Rush is much better ref than this guy.

I don't know who that Trail official was, but it sure looked like a backcourt violation. Maybe the T saw that the defender touched the ball after it was passed. But you sure couldn't see any touch on TV. I'd like to hear that discussion in the locker room. I can't believe that any referee (FIBA, NBA, NCAA) would miss a backcourt call that was that obvious.

I only saw the 3rd quarter. It was such a blowout in the 4th, that I turned it off. I saw only that backcourt call (and it's not clear who was wrong there) and a HORRIBLE no-call during rebounding action. The Spanish player literally landed on the back of the Greek player, who lost the ball. Then during the loose ball, a foul was called on Greece. Really bad sequence there; but that's the only thing I saw.

I thought they did a very good job for the 10:00 that I saw. Doesn't mean they're all good or all bad; it's just what I happened to see this morning.

Interesting thread.

No doubt there went some crappy sequences at the WC. Some recent NBA mixups:

T'ing a player (resulting in ejection) for USC when two opponents, friends, were just joking around.

I recall something about Michael Henderson suspended for 3 games for missing a shot clock violation.

I don't recall the rule 100%, and maybe this is an issue with the rule: playoff game last year, secondary defender plants roots about 3 inches outside LDB. Strong torso contact. L calls block. It's either a bad call or bad rule.

I'm sure there are others, but my NBA watching is minimal.

So..... the NBA playoffs is the best basketball in the world? Then why does an NBA all-star team not handily win the WC?

Are FIBA refs good? Yes, they are. I know a FIBA ref that was invited to 2 NBA camps. Ok, so he didn't make it, but he was invited and I don't think he would have chosen to go anyways; he is a strong family man. I also know about a few other FIBA refs who do ref NCAA ball, from D3 to D1. IMO, European FIBA refs could do NBA ball, once given the NBA philosophy.

Jugs, some of your points are good ones, but this one is not. The best NBA teams make the NBA playoffs. An All-Star team is not necessarily put together to make a good team. This is obvious from the US team's performance in the last Olympics. Lots of talent, no team effort.

In addition to that, not all the best players in the NBA want to play the int'l game. Their season is long enough and they'd rather not play over the summer.

I think different officials from different countries/associations/leagues(even areas etc.) might have different understandings/opinions/abilities of OFFICIATING, so it may not be that necessary to judge who is better or worse. Every official has his/her personality, capability, skills advantage/disadvantage in officiating. Somehow I deeply believe that every official is always trying his/her best. And the OFFICIATING is an unlimited course.

Maybe because there is only 2 or 3 NBA All-Stars on the team. This is not the Dream Team where every player was a Hall of Famer. LeBron, Carmelo and Wade are about the only year in, year out All-Stars on the team. And they only get together every 2 or 3 years and work for a 2 month stretch. It is obvious to me a team why a team like Greece wins when those guys have been playing together for years.

Are you going to tell me if guys like Shaq, Kevin Garnett and Kobe played on the team what the result would be the same? They got beat in one game for God's sake.

Peace

The 2004 team had Tim Duncan, Allan Iverson, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade and Carmelo Anthony, who are all projected to be future NBA Hall-of-famers. They also had at least 2 other all-stars in Amare Stoudamire and Stephon Marbury. That team went 5-3 at the Olympics, losing to Puerto Rico, Lithuania and Argentina, and barely beating Greece by 6. They had a Hall-of-Fame coach in Larry Brown too.

The bottom line is that the US is now <b>one</b> of the best teams in the world, and on any given day.......

Might as well accept it.

Yeah, but the entire team was not that way like the original Dream Team. Other than Christian Lathner, who is not a Hall of Famer on that team?

Even after that team, many of the All-Stars of the entire league were on the USA team and this is why it took last Olympics to lose a game. Lamar Odom was on that team. Odom might be a good player, but he is not close to being a superstar or close to it. You had a lot of guys that for whatever reasons decide they did not want to play.

If you watched the Greece game, it was obvious the Greece team played together and knew who was the go to guy. I am not sure the USA had that same chemistry. USA is a lot better, but these guys have to have more time playing together than a couple of months to get that consistency. The Greece team played other tournaments together and they know what to do. Also they play under different rules sets and this can and I believe causes problems.

These are not excuses, they are just facts. We can what if all night and day, but the US team got beat fair and square. It is just harder to beat teams that have played together and understand their roles. This is the case in HS, college or the pros. In HS you can tell the teams that played together through grammar school to their senior year in HS. It is not always the most talented teams that win.

Peace

Um, no, the 2002 team had Tracy McGrady, Elton Brand, Reggie Miller, Jermaine O'neal, Paul Pearce, Ben Wallace, Michael Finlay and Baron Davis. All were NBA all-stars. That team lost to Argentina, Yugoslavia and Spain...and barely beat Greece by 6....and finished sixth in the Worlds Championship. And they played in Indy too iirc.

How many NBA all-stars are on the teams that are beating these NBA all-star teams now? Greece, for instance? Greece didn't even have an NBA player, let alone an NBA all-star.

Know what is funny? I'd rather watch an NBA all-star team play in the Worlds Championship than watch an NBA ball game. To me, it just kinda seems more like..... basketball.

Edited to add another view:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/telan...pt-rick03.html

I referred to his lack of credibiltiy because he states there's controversy in every NBA playoff game. What a stupid comment on his part and how unfortunate that you can't read what I wrote and comprehend it.

Excuse me but are these games being played in Greece? I couldn't care less what goes on in Greece. I'm refering to the FEEBLE officials that I've seen officiate in these games.

Say what you will but the level of intensity at these "World Championship Games' doesn't compare to the NBA, the NCAA tourney, or even an ACC contest between Duke and Carolina.

Yeah, I guess that's why all the best players in Europe are leaving for the NBA and why the US players who play in Europe couldn't make it in the NBA.

According to your first post, you're from Portugal.

Have you ever seen an NBA game in the US in person?:confused:

He's from Portugal? Nevermind. I should have known to ignore him. Probably doesn't even know who Duke and Carolina are.

Do you really believe that the non-US players that try out (and make) the NBA do so simply because it is the bast basketball competition in the world? You must be kidding! One of the main reasons is the amount of money they get paid.


And back to the original start of this thread - FIBA referees are amongst the best in the world (as are NBA and Div 1 NCAA refs). Here's a thought to consider - most Americans don't give a sh!t about FIBA competitions (Olympics, WC etc). Well, the majority of non-Americans couldn't care less about the NCAA and NBA. Not all great FIBA referees have any desire to even try out to referee NBA or NCAA.

Yes, i am from Portugal. Yes i have seen NBA games live and yes i know what is Duke and Carolina. In fact i even know that the US coach in the WC is the head coach of Duke.
The problem of US basketball is that tries to ignore everybody outside the US. That´s why the US team lost with Greece. Because they toughtt the game would be easy. Because they tought they were the best but on the court they lost fair and square.
Us team has the best players individually in the world, no doubt about it but as a team they suck. And they are knowing this the hard way. But the US team is a young team and has some very good players, for me they are the favourites for the Olympics, if they progrss as a team.

"Yeah, I guess that's why all the best players in Europe are leaving for the NBA and why the US players who play in Europe couldn't make it in the NBA."

It´s true that the best league in the world is the NBA. And the best players in the world want to go there. To play with the best. Also the financial reasons are important. But it´s also true that some of the best european players don´t want to go to the NBA because the basketball level here in Europe is very good too. The example is Juan Carlos Navarro.

Congratulations Spain and Pau Gasol.

You know, you two guys miss the reason I even replied in this thread to begin with.

Dave30 chose to crap on NBA and NCAA officials with his comment in the first post of this thread. Had he not done that, I never would have replied. It was a ridiculous comment on his part and I shot back. I'll probably shoot back the next time too.

You're entitled to your opinions but so am I. It will always be FEEBLE basketball to me. The basketball in Europe in no way compares to the level of the NBA. The champion of any given European league would finish last in any division of the NBA. College players who can't make the NBA get million dollar contracts in Europe. All start teams in these international competitions are no comparison. And the foreign FEEBLE officials that I've seen in this tourney could not officiate D1 basketball.

As for my Aussie buddy, one of your high schools played some games here last year. I officiated one of their games. I'm sad to say that their skills were under developed and their fundamentals were poor. And they got waxed by a very mediocre private school team. Worse than anything else, I don't believe a one of them bathed the entire time they were here.

Apples and oranges - Australian public high schools do not offer any sporting scholarships, nor do Australian colleges. Plus we are only 1/10 of the population of America.

Nor do they here, my friend. No schollys at our public or private high schools. If you go to private school, your parents pay for it.

No idea what the population has to do with it. You can only put 5 on the floor at a time. This particular school has an enrollment of less than 300.

You can't throw mud without getting yourself dirty...
 

You would expect anyone doing something full time to be better at that activity than a person doing the same thing part-time.
I am sure that, given the opportunity to do it full time, most FIBA officials would make it in NBA. Then again, I am sure there are NBA officials who, if they could not commit to it full-time, would not cut it at FIBA competitions.
The fact remains that overall, this WC has probably seen the best officiating yet.
I would agree with those who say that you don't pour crap on one group of officials in order to make another one look better. This goes as much for dave as it does for bktballref.

Who cares who is better? None of us are full-time officials unless you work in the NBA or some pro league somewhere in the world. This debate is about as silly as "My dad will beat your dad" discussion.

I will say this. I do not know that I saw a lot of calls from officials during the tournament called things outside of their area if you are using standards from the other major mechanics sets. I saw the Lead official calling all over the area. It made me wonder who was watching off-ball and who was watching on-ball. Also I did see a pretty basic over and back violation missed during the USA and Greece. That was a pretty basic call (my understanding the rule is the same, I could be wrong as it relates to FIBA rules) that a HS Freshman official would not miss.

I just did not get a good understanding of what guys were calling. When I would see the replay sometimes what was called and what should have been called did not always seem to match. Then again, I was sitting on my couch and they were on the court. Easy for me to say.

Peace

That's crap - I have a friend that played basketball in the USA. He went to a private high school in New York on a full scholarship. The school payed for his education and he lived with a host family.

As to population - if you have 250+ million people to pick from surely you will get better players (and referees) then if you only have 20 million to pick from.


Having said that - I agree with Rut (not something I say often). Considering the different rules and mechanics and style of basketball - the conversation of who is better is a little pointless.

I think the point you are missing is the fact that many private schools require payment from parents in this country. This is why a lot of these schools are all one race and one class of people. Of course you cannot say that some people do not get some scholarships, but those might only go so far. If you remember the movie "Hoop Dreams" (It was on ESPN Classic last night BTW), there is a school not far from me called St. Joseph High School. This is a Catholic school and if you remember there was a kid from the movie that attended this school and his parents struggled to pay his way. Now this was about two African-Americans kids that came from lower income households and it was a struggle for those kids to attend that private Catholic school. I also work a lot of Catholic and Private schools and those schools often struggle to find good athletes because they have a smaller pool of kids that are eligible to participate based on ability to pay tuition.

Peace

Let's start over and see if anybody can understand my point. I wasn't crapping on NBA and NCAA officials. I was merely commenting on the FIBA officials doing a good job of managing the game and keeping the flow. It isn't because FIBA officials are better, I think it is because the style of basketball is more enjoyable to watch in my humble opinion. NBA officials call the game the way the NBA wants them to call the game and they are very good at it. FIBA officials call the way FIBA wants them to call the game and they too are very good. FIBA seems to allow more contact that doesn't really affect the play and I like that. Too many games in the NBA playoffs were decided late by touch fouls in the final seconds of games. Bowen (two times against Dallas), Nowitski (against Wade on a drive at the end of a game) for example. The NBA used to let players decide the game on really close calls at the end of a game. As a fan, I don't like to see the game decided on the foul line unless the foul is obvious. That's just the way I see it. I like to read message boards of teams after playoff games. At least half the posts in the NBA boards are about close calls that each team thinks they got screwed on. People talking about the FIBA games rarely mention the officiating. I know it comes from fans, but if nobody is mentioning the officiating, that's a good thing. When Mark Cuban went on Letterman he talked about his part in getting the officials to really concentrate on slight bumps and hand checks so the LeBron James and Dirk Nowitski's can drive to the basket more freely. When it is called that way, I think there are too many fouls. I don't like games where each team shoots 35+ free throws. The game bogs down and gets ugly. The FIBA games just seem to have more of a natural "basketball flow" to them. As for the passion, I think it is equal. Everybody wants to win. Did you see Gasol in tears after Spain won, there is passion there, just as in the NBA.

You cannot accurately assess FIBA officials unless you know FIBA rules, philosophy and mechanics.

IMO, the officials' game mangement skills were the equal of any. If you watched the 2004 Olympics, the difference was remarkable (Eurobasket officials boycotted the 2004 Olympics, as I recall).

As far as the FIBA rules and mechanics, I have no idea. The semi-finals and the finals were the only games where I noticed a 3-second call or a lane violation (both against Lebron James, I think), so I'm sure the rules philosophy is different as well.

How can we assess whether they are doing a good job or not? Consistency, lack of controversy, controlling potential violence, well played games - by all these standards, the officiating was outstanding.

As for any other standard, I'll leave that to those more familiar with the FIBA rules and mechanics.