I was told if you keep focus this will come, but heres another questions from a first time camper.

With out using a rubber band a roung your hand, or a whistle in your pocket, or depending on the possesion arrow(all the time)how do you did track.

(Gentlemen keep in mind I just did my cadet class last year and this will be my first full season so some question I put out here my be old hat for some of you, but with your help they will become old hat for me to
Thanks.

BMA,
I don't try to remember, and I don't intend to learn how to remember until it becomes an official mechanic.
If there is no table crew, I do something like you suggest, and I use my partner.
I have enough other things to think about than to try and remember who has next possession.

mick

Since you're being told not to use the rubber band or the
whistle in the pocket to remember the arrow then you should
work on eliminating them from your game. Just throw 'em
away, you'll be surprised how quickly you get used to not
having them around. A common technique is to take a mental
snapshot of the situation that led to the last change in arrow direction, which includes the jump (or jump
violation). Remind yourself mentally of the arrow direction
frequently during the game. Given time it will become
second nature.

If I find myself being forgetful, I just check the arrow at the table. If they don't have it right, well, it's not my <b>fault</b> but it is my problem--I'll discuss it with them to make sure they begin to get it right. After this happens once, I'll always check and make sure that the table crew is switching the arrow properly after each AP.

Of course, if there is no arrow at the table, then you line up and punt :)

If you are doing middle school girls you will not forget. There is a jump every 6.3 seconds.

For games where they are far and few, do the mental snapshot thing, but also lean on the table. That is why they are there. If you make it a habit to watch and ensure they switch it correctly, there should be no issues.

keeping track of arrow
 

It may seem infantile, but I just keep saying over and over to myself what the situation is. I also remind myself of who has the ball. So throughout the possession, I'm muttering under my breath "White ball. Held ball blue. White ball. Held ball blue." Reminding myself that White has the ball helps me to keep in mind who has to screen legally, and which way I'll point if the ball goes OOB. I don't do it every single possession, but if I find that I haven't thought about the arrow in a while, I'll say it a few times to remind myself.

Also, thanks to Mick for emailing me about this site. Now I've gotta figure out how to add real smiley's to my posts. :-)

Chuck

[Edited by ChuckElias on Aug 13th, 2001 at 11:41 AM]

Re: keeping track of arrow
 

Chuck,

Try http://www.officialforum.com/index.p...on=showsmilies

:D

Re: keeping track of arrow
 

No problem.
Glad yer here.
Welcome aboard, Chuck. ;)
mick

The direction of the AP arrow must always be known by at least one official on the floor 100% of the time and the table/scoreboard must properly reflect this.

Scorers and timers often forget...even in the big games. This is an essential part of game management and every ref should keep track. I use a paper clip in my pocket (right pocket-home team, left pocket-visitors). Every change I verify the arrow at the table/scoreboard has been changed and expect my partners to do the same. (pregame)

By doing this, everybody is on the same page and you don't get that embarassing dead ball moment...you know when a coach freaks out cause he thinks it's his ball and the crew isn't sure so they huddle and check with the table, the fans are wondering what's going on, everybody is watching you and you're attracting all kinds of unwanted attention.

It's not hard to do...and it avoids a potentially embarassing situation.

Other embarassing situations due to poor game management:

1. Failure to award merited free throws and all the other correctable errors..
2. Allowing a player to continue w/ 5 fouls.
3. Handing the ball to the wrong team for a throw in.
4. Letting the wrong player shoot free throws.

feel free to add to the list...... :)

Re: keeping track of arrow
 

Welcome Chuck. Just lose the nose. :-) :)

TH

I use Gum
 

If I don't have an arrow at the table, I bust out with a crayon and paper and make one. If there are no crayons available, I try to have a piece of gum to chew, (then I try to keep it out of my whistle), when I look at the benches, if I have my gum on the right side of my mouth, that is the direction the ball is going.

Re: I use Gum
 

You da man! :cool:

Re: Re: I use Gum
 

Actually, I think she's the woman! :o

I suggest turning the scoreboard arrow off, and just going with the table for a few reasons:
(1) The arrow at the table is official.
(2) If there is a discrepancy between the two displays, the followers of one of the teams will think that they're getting screwed royally.
(3) An arrow at the table is often easier for the officials and table crew to all see, and for all of them to have the ability to switch it if the need arises.

Of course, the most important is the original jump ball - most switches are easy, it's the setting that is the hardest. Also, make sure that the table knows to buzz you over if they have ANY questions.

Good ideas, and related to this, make sure the table knows
when there's a change in the arrow. Make sure the arrow is
changed when it needs to be. There is often trouble when a
time out is called immediately following a held ball. Remind
the table to switch the arrow before putting the ball back
in.

Oh yeah, one more thing. There's realy no reason why any of
us should depend on a rubber band or paper clip or even
the table for this. Work on keeping the arrow in your head,
it's not all that hard once you get the hang of it.

You'd Better Know It!
 

BMA,

This is something I struggle with every game and after 6 years I still have problems. It appears what ever camp you went to this year had the same emphasis as the one's I went too. In fact, at the one camp I was at the D-1 Assignor emphatically stated if your on his staff and he observes you or see's you on tape using any kind of device (i.e. rubber band, coin, paper clip) you are "Fired". He also stated if you didn't know the correct direction and you are the calling official on the jump ball, "Fired". So for me this kind of talk scares the **** out of me( Pardon My French!). So what I have been attempting to do is on each possession especially where you have a slowed controlled offensive set, repeat to yourself - Color of Posession, Bonus Situation, Time Left, and Score. It is difficult, but if you can get it into a routine it can only help your game management skills.

Because as we all know if you don't know, eventually you will be in the last minutes of a close game and if you somehow give the ball to the wrong team and it's found out on tape, you will pay for it in the media which means the conference looks bad, which means your supervisor looks bad and you know the rest!

Thanks for bringing up that point! I find that way too many PA mistakes happen because we at the table don't know that a jump ball has been called. Sometimes, the thumbs aren't seen, especially when the officials run into the held ball tangle - this has happened to me at all levels.

The best thing to do is make eye contact with the table to make sure the scorers know it is a jump ball situation (an easy way for them to confirm is by having them put their hand on the electronic arrow switch). Also, make sure your partner(s) are aware that a jump ball has been called. My scorer partner and I have had to correct disagreements several times when one partner remembered the call and the other didn't.

As a follow-up to an arrow switch and TO: whenever there's a delay, I like to give myself a reminder by putting something (usually our old microphone) right on top of the arrow.

Also, having the scorer keep the arrow in the book as well can help, especially with refreshing memories.

Re: Re: Re: I use Gum
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by Danvrapp Quote: Originally posted by Stripes130 You da man! :cool: Actually, I think she's the woman! :o

Woman is more like it thank you :)

AP is a big problem for me, too, BMA. I have just learned to sort of "Make A Snapshot" of the situation, including the beginning of the quarter, like DanRef said. This works in most games, except freshman girls and under. But like, Brian said, in those games, it's only been six seconds since the last one, so no problem.

The most important things are A) be sure your partner and you communicate heavily on every jump call. and B) don't let the table change the arrow UNTIL THE BALL IS ACTUALLY LEGALLY ONTO THE FLOOR. Be sure you discuss this with the table before the game, and then watch them for the first couple or three switches, to be sure they are doing it correctly.

Worst AP situation for me so far: I look up at the table to see which direction, and a kid is tossing the arrow device up and down in the air!! Stopped the game and asked management to get me a new table person...

Re: I use Gum
 

GUM!?!?! I have enough problems keeping my feet, hands, shoulders, shoelaces, lanyard, whistle, hair and occasionally, glasses in their proper places. I cannot imagine adding a piece of gum into the juggling act. You must be some kind of athletic genius!!

Re: Re: Re: Re: I use Gum
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stripes130

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef Quote: Originally posted by Danvrapp Quote: Originally posted by Stripes130 You da man! :cool: Actually, I think she's the woman! :o Woman is more like it thank you :)

Down on all fours, humbly begging your forgiveness...

That's a good point, I think. It's bad enough when the person on the arrow switches on the release, but I've seen a timer who usually switches the arrow right after the direction of the throw-in has been established (unfortunately, he won't let anyone else do the arrow). I saw a situation once where A had the throw-in, he switched the arrow, ball handed to A1, officials notice arrow and give the ball to B1, we others at the table scream for the horn. The worst part is that he is probably the most experienced timer in the area.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I use Gum
 

Down on all fours, humbly begging your forgiveness... [/B][/QUOTE]


It's all cool Dan

Re: Re: I use Gum
 

I mastered the skill of keping gum tucked away in my high school days when we would get in trouble for having it. Chewed most of the time, never got caught but once maybe twice.

The Arrow
 

I originally had trouble with the arrow like most people. I tried to focus etc but found that took away from my game focus which was not good. I finally developed a communication procedure which solved the problem. Prior to putting the ball into play when an arrow change could be made I now always get the minor officials attention, remind him/her to be ready to change the arrow make my signal to my partner(s) that the balls going into play -then give the ball to the throw-in person. When the ball is successfully inbounded I then look and point to the minor official as they change the arrow. Of course during the pre-game with the minor official the rules re: the arrow change must always be reviewed- especially with the rookies. This procedure really works for me.
Pistol

I know I'm stupid but....
 

I know I'm only a poor stupid FEEBLE referee, but can someone explain what the possesion arrow is, and how and why it is used?

It is something totally foreign to us FIBA referees, so if someone can please explain it I would appreciate it.

4 OzRef
 

The purpose of the arrow (or some other signal device) is to show which team will receive the ball in case of a held ball, double foul, OOB when neither partner knows who touched it last, etc. The direction is initially established with the initial jump ball. The possession arrow also shows which team will have the ball to start the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarter. The arrow does not change until the ball is inbounded.

Re: 4 OzRef
 

Or until the inbounding team commits a throw-in violation.

Chuck

Well, I'm glad that under the FIBA system we don't have to bother with this 'arrow' dilemma.

Nice and simple; held ball situation or double foul (when neither team in control), we toss the ball between the two players; erroneous signal of the 24 second shot clock (or any other game delay while neither team in control), unknown OOB, we toss the ball between any two opposing players on court at the time of the infraction.

How does your arrow system work? I think we have something similar in our National Wheelchair Basketball League, but I'm not really sure how that works either.

dblref explains it above. After the opening tip, the teams just alternate everytime there's a held ball.

Response to irunlikeagirl
 

The alternating possession arrow has improved the game immensely at all levels of play. It speeds up the game at the lower levels where there is an abundance of held ball calls and makes the game fairer in that the toss is generally the weakest skill of officials in general. Bad tosses are often not blown down( for whatever reason)and attempted again and this often results in a critical advantage to the team that gets the ball as a direct result of a bad toss. I am surprised that FIBA has not gone to the arrow. As for the NBA,I guess they feel it adds to the "show" aspect of that venue. Also at the NBA you rarely see the jump ball because of the skill and strengh of the players.
Pistol

Re: Response to irunlikeagirl
 

Pistol,
Why would that be? Why wouldn't it be same level = same strength?
My guess is they just give a little more time for the players to sort it out and call fouls before they call the "jump".
mick

Response top Mick
 

Mick
I think you might be right ! Officials at the higher levels appear to have a better feel of when and when not to call the jump ball -but I don't think they "bail out"on the call by blowing an unnecessary foul,do you?
Pistol

Re: Response top Mick
 

Pistol,
Nah, those guys don't bail out on anything, unless they are told to do so <small>and I'll never be privy to that scoop</small>. I think they just give the players lots of leeway to determine who wants the ball more.
From my seat in TV land, I sure can't tell if the tie-up is a foul, or not; but, it seems like they call more fouls on those intimate plays than "jump balls".
mick

Top Level Held Ball situations
 

Right On !!!
Pistol

Re: Re: Response to irunlikeagirl
 

Think about most of the held balls that you whistle. They usually occur during sloppy play. A mad scramble for a loose ball or some such. Not many of those occur in the NBA. Watch a half dozen NBA games and you probably won't see more than 1 or 2 held balls in all 6 games combined.

On the other hand, in the WNBA, there are 2-4 per game, and it's usually not sloppy play. There are usually also 2-4 fouls per game on sloppy attempts to get a jump. I think it has to do with the different style of game in the WNBA from the NBA. I think that the difference between the women's game and the men's game runs clear down to 6th grade girls, where you see 376 jump balls per game as compared to 6th grade boys where there are only 5-10 per game.