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Mon Aug 13, 2001, 08:50am
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I just finish my first camp, which was great. After I review my tapes more I will have more question for you guys , but here is the first one.
A1 is at the foul line(with the ball), B3 & A4 are in the wrong spaces,(spots 2&3) just before A1 perpares to shoot they switch places. Who is the violation on A4 for moving or could it be on B3 for discernment(not sure on the spelling). My partner called it on A4, cancel the first shot(which was missed) I was not sure so I said OK lets play. I missed asking the observer about it, but since there is a wealth of knowledge on this borad I'll ask you guys.
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BMA 
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Mon Aug 13, 2001, 09:28am
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Unless you believed one of the players was trying to decieve the other into movement this is a double violation.
if on the first or second and another FT to follow cancel the throw and shoot the next. If on the last FT cancel the throw and go to the possession arrow.
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Mon Aug 13, 2001, 10:49am
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Quote:
tell when a player initiates the double switch, if not then go with the double violation. BTW, was this your partner's call or your call? BTW2, you do realize that in fed spaces 2 & 3 "belong" to no one, right? Only space 1 (closest to the end line) must be occupied by the defense, by rule.
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Mon Aug 13, 2001, 01:05pm
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This happened when I was watching my son's game, I thought it was going to be a double violation, the FT was good and no violation was called. One of the officials also did college ball, so I thought I'd better look it up.
The comment on case 9.1.4b states "If a Team B player uses verbal tactics like "your in my space" or a time-out request to fake an opponent into violations, only the fake is penalized.
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Tue Aug 14, 2001, 11:24am
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One thing to remember in a double violation situation is that things depend on who violates first. If B3 moves first, then you have a potential violation (fist out!). When A4 then moves, you have a double violation. However, if A4 moves first, then you have an immediate violation. Even if B3 moves just a moment later, it is not a double violation---the ball is already dead at that point.
In the case where there is another free throw to follow, the penalties are exactly the same---cancel the current free throw and shoot the next one. However, if there is no subsequent free throw, the penalties are different---go to the arrow for the double violation, give the ball to B for the single violation.
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Tue Aug 14, 2001, 01:52pm
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lined up wrong
I'm sure you know this, and I don't mean to sound snotty, but why did the shooter have the ball when the players were not lined up correctly? Better to get it right than to figure out how to fix it.
Chuck
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Tue Aug 14, 2001, 01:59pm
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Re: lined up wrong
Quote:
Other than the first spot, I don't coach the players as to where they may stand and who has rights to where. As long as they aren't moving too far, I do not care. I have some partners that will tell players where to go, but, I think, if I do that, then I should also tell them, "There is an open guy under the basket". mick
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Tue Aug 14, 2001, 02:04pm
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Re: lined up wrong
Quote:
To look at it from game management should I have instructed them to change places or is this some thing the coach should have taugth them. (dont' want to argue just understand)
__________________
BMA
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Tue Aug 14, 2001, 02:13pm
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Re: Re: lined up wrong
Quote:
time I'll tell players where to stand on FT's is when they are lined up incorrectly *by rule* or if 2 players disagree about who is entitled to what spot.
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Tue Aug 14, 2001, 02:15pm
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I think it depends on the level as well. When I am doing younger kid ball, I suck it up and help them out, they don't know any better. If it 8th grade or higher, too bad so sad.
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Tue Aug 14, 2001, 02:56pm
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If B moved first, then A moves double violation. If A moves first, immediate violation and it doesn't matter if B moves or not. I also agree that the only spaces I worry about on free throws (NFHS) are the bottom two and the little space next to the free throw line. I'm sure most of you have had players try to line up there once in awhile! College is diferent.
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Tue Aug 14, 2001, 04:19pm
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Yer right.
Quote:
I agree with you. Each game is a little different. I often play it by ear, cuz everyone knows I can't see. I'll help some kids, if they look really lost.  mick 1st girls' scrimmage next Monday. Can't wait! We're workin' a "freebee" three-man. They offered money, but I told 'em just drinks will be good.
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Tue Aug 14, 2001, 05:19pm
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Totally my bad!!!!
Quote:
Second of all, I should've read more carefully. Of course, I was thinking that the players were in the first two spots, but the original post specifically said that they were in spots 2 & 3. So you may totally ignore my last post in this thread. Jeez, I just get invited to this board and I've already got my foot in my mouth. Great first impressions. . . My apologies. duh Chuck
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Tue Aug 14, 2001, 07:57pm
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Re: Totally my bad!!!!
Quote:
 Unless, of course, someone does you the injustice of quoting it.  TH
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Fri Aug 17, 2001, 10:45pm
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The points made above all make sense. For beginner officials, the main point to remember is that as soon as the shooting team violates, the ball is dead, and the free throw does not count.
This may be an odd question, by why is the defense required to occupy the first spot? I understand that it was originally designed to prevent delay of game, or lack of action, but if they do not want that advantage, who cares? Just something to think about.
__________________
Coach, Don't Shoot The Messenger!
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