Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Under certain conditions, I sureasheck would give a coach a "T" for that. If the coach did that deliberately to distract an opponent, and it worked....or if the coach did something that <b>directly</b> causes a turnover, as in the situation above, I'm gonna call it every time. Imo, it's unsporting and unethical behavior on the coach's part to try and gain an unfair advantage with unsporting actions like that.

Now, what would you do in those situations?

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

1) But since we are talking about high school ball here, the player must have been really impaired or dumb to listen to the opponent's coach and actually giving him the ball. Come on now, the player must take some responsibilities for his action for turning the ball over.

2) Fans in the stands often scream "shoot the ball" or say words deliberately to create an advantage for their team. When we hear it, do we always penalize the fans for such action? Even when we do decide to penalize the fans, we would probably do this once in every so many times that we hear it. So what constitute the referees for penalizing the coach and not the fans if both people were to say the same thing?

3)And why is it that a defender can scream "dead" or "ball" when the dribble is dead and what makes that sporting vs. "give me the ball" or "shoot the ball" as unsporting?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

3) Players shouting "dead" or "shoot" aren't unsporting acts; it's that simple. Any official with any kind of experience at all knows the difference.

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Bench player did it once, I glared at her, then she did it again! I whacked her.

Originally Posted by mick

I don't think I could have done that.

If I didn't like the player counting down, I imagine I would have said something to her coach. The use of the "glare" would probably not be understood unless the player was my kid, unless the player knew me very well.
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Originally Posted by rainmaker

In general, I agree. However, I whacked a bench player this summer for shouting, "3!!.... 2!.... 1!... ." as the opposing team (losing badly) was trying to set up for a last shot play. Bench player did it once, I glared at her, then she did it again! I whacked her. Coach tried to say it was the name of their play, "3-2-1, because that's how the players are set up on the floor" I said, "Okay then the T is for having six players on the floor." He said, "We dont have six players on the floor!" I said, "So how could they set up as 3-2-1?" He was still scratching his head over that one as the players were all leaving the gym. Gotta admit, I thought it was one of the lamest excuses I'd ever heard.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Agree...

If I were that coach, I'd have my players keep playing but with restrictions on how they can play that will actually benefit them...such as:

• only dribble with weaker hand
• Long range shooters can only shoot layups
• Inside players can only shoot outside of 15'
• Layups can only be with the weaker han
• Everyone must touch the ball before a shot is allowed
• Don't allow them to dribble...passes only

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Well, personally I really don't care if the player is impaired or dumb. That's got no relevancy at all imo when it comes to judging this play. As an official, all I'm worried about is whether I'm letting a coach and his team benefit from from an unsporting act in some way. If that unsporting act caused an opponent's turnover, then that coach and his team sureasheck are benefiting from that unsporting act imo. I won't let a coach get away with gaining an unfair advantage like that. Apparently you would. Guess we're gonna have to disagree on this one...big time.

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

-[I]ohh come on now, we all know different games require different types of officiating. The player with the ball must have been extremely dumb if he/she listens to the opponent coach and give him the ball. Where's the game awareness? Is he even playing basketball? Why’s he paying attention to the coach? If those were the things I question - is he playing basketball? By having a low basketball IQ, they are putting themselves in a very bad position to expect a call that they caused to lose. IMO, why should they be rewarded for their own mistake?

Here's a scenario I think it can be measured similarly. Is this an acceptable play by the defender?

A5, facing his own basketball rebound the ball and on his way down he hears a shout down court that screams, "THROW ME THE BALL." A5, who is now in full control of the ball, thought one of his teammates was open for a fast break opportunity. A5 quickly pivot and throw the ball down court, and the pass is intercepted by B4. Every person at the gym knows B4 shout “THROW ME THE BALL” except for A5. But A5 committed the play. Can you still panelize B4 for saying “throw me the ball?” Or better yet give him a “t” for quote and quote “creating an advantage on the court?” If so, then why? If not, why not?

Basketball is never fair. As an official, it is critical to enforce all of the rules and make sure the game flow smoothly. If a coach creates an advantage for his team (like spilling water to cause a player to fall, struck his foot out, throw things on the court, etc), then sure heck we gotta nail him. But the degree of creating an 'advantage' must be measured. As stated in the previous post, if they were in grade school, because of the talent of basketball, we can and should enforce something to prohibit the coach from doing it again. After all, for the grade school level is still about learning to sport of basketball. For this particular scenario, it is to me that a “bonehead” play was made by the offensive team. I just cannot see what the coach did wrong in terms of creating an advantage and thus deserving a “t.

3) Players shouting "dead" or "shoot" aren't unsporting acts; it's that simple. Any official with any kind of experience at all knows the difference.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Different games may require different types of officiating, but you should still be consistent and fair in <b>all</b> games, no matter what. Basketball may never be fair to you, but as an official, I'm gonna do my damndest to keep my games fair.

Are you ever gonna post <b>anything</b> that's relevant to the original situation? You're judging a <b>coach's</b> actions, not completely different scenarios concerning players on the floor. And howinthehell can you say you're gonna enforce all of the rules when your advocating above to not enforce all of the rules <b>equally</b>? Do you really only make calls in favor of "smart" ballplayers, but refuse to make the same call if you feel a player is dumb? Lah me.....

Jmo, but advising that an official should make a call dependant on whether that official feels that the player is dumb or not is inherently dumb in itself. Letting the coach commit an unsporting act and rationalizing away your refusal to penalize that unsporting act by blaming the <b>recipient</b> of the unsporting act is also just completely dumb imo.

As I said, we disagree completely on this particular philosophy. You don't feel that the coach's actions are unsporting; I do.