IAABO? If not, why not? If you are, why?

[Love2ref4Ever]

I am the one who started the post in regards to Ecourt. First this is not a IAABO product, they are endorsing, and all purchases go through them via there website. Second I have been a IAABO official since 1990, and in all honestly I like the joke (I AM A BLIND OFFICIAL)about IAABO.I am also one of those officials that only know about IAABO. It dosen't bother me what other organizations officials from other states belong to.I have attended camps in states where the officials tell me how they can only work games that are assigned by there governing bodies(whoever that may be)and regardless of what governing body a official may belong to that is not how it works here in New York. Now what shocks me is a official in some states can't call a recreation league game without getting in trouble, if that game has not been assigned by there board. To sum it up, I don't think there is any difference in calling a game based on what governing body you belong to.You can get caught up in that stuff if you like, myself I just Love2Ref!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
It appears that JRutledge missed the point of my posting. Belonging to IAABO is not about getting games. It is just like any technical organization in anyother profession. It exists so that officials can become better officials. Not all civil engineers belong to the ASCE and not all medical doctors belong to the AMA but the vast majority do because they benefit in many intangible and tangible ways. Remember, IAABO is primary purpose to the education and training of basketball officials and not to assign games.

Yes, IAABO is strong the the Northeast and it does assign games and you must belong to IAABO to get assigned games, but that is no different than being registered by your state high school athletic association to be able to officiate in your state.

Belonging to IAABO in the Northeast is not unlike belonging to the Southern California Basketball Officials Assn. in the Los Angeles area. The CIF does not register officials, and you have to belong to the SCBOA to be able to officate in California.

I think that I have spoke enough. Check out the IAABO website: http://www.IAABO.org, and join it for a year. The worst that can happen is that you will get a tax deduction for the year.

TH is correct, I am not at all talking about getting games. As a matter of fact, you do not have to belong to any organization to get game at all. If you are going to do HS games, you are required by the state to have a license to do HS level games. You do not even have to belong any organization other than the IHSA. In my state, you are on your own as to getting games. And because IAABO is really does not have influence here, being a member of IAABO here does nothing for you. There are no meetings that I am aware of. There are no camps run by that organization, and there are no assignors directly involved in that organization.

I can get training from NASO and my local associations better than IAABO can give me training where I live.

[ChuckElias]

Mark wrote: "Yes, IAABO is strong the the Northeast and it does assign games and you must belong to IAABO to get assigned games, but that is no different than being registered by your state high school athletic association to be able to officiate in your state."

I think for officials in "non-IAABO" areas of the country, it may indeed be different b/c they'd be paying an extra fee (for IAABO membership) for little or no tangible return. I see Mark's point that it is sometimes beneficial to join a professional organization, even if there are no direct benefits. But I can also see Rut's side of the argument. If IAABO has no presence in one's area, has no training in that area, and all you get is a Sportorial every other month, then why pay the dues? Just to say "I'm IAABO"? To Rut (perhaps) joining IAABO would be like me joining FIBA.

I live in western MA, so I am an IAABO member. I am fortunate to have the best interpreter in the state, if not all of New England, on my board. His training comes from IAABO, so I get very concrete and positive benefits from being a member. (Not to mention all of my high school game assignments.)

Anyway, that's just my two cents. I am very glad to be an IAABO member. But I can understand that there are those who might not think it worth their while.

Chuck

[Brian Watson]

I think the midwest is sort of an deadzone for IAABO. I cannot think of any reason here in OH to join. There was no need in IN to join. I think if it affects when or where you work, then join. If not, why drop the jack?

The only good thing I have heard about IAABO from the east coast transplants are the exams they put out. I guess they are a better test of ones rules knowledge than the fed disaster they put out every year, never seen one though.

[Love2ref4Ever]

The only joke about the IAABO exam is they ask each member to take a refresher(take home) exam each year.And the answers to the exam are made available on there website before the date the exam is due to be mailed in.They should let each member take the exam on line.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I would hope that everybody would go back and read my post of Aug. 18th. IAABO has nothing to do where you live. It is a technical organiztion dedicated to the education and training of basketball officials. To use the excuse that IAABO does not have a presence where I live is just that an excuse, not a reason.

I do not live in Los Angeles anymore but I still belong to the Structural Enigneers Association of Southern California.
The SEAOSC is a member of the Structural Engineers Association of California. SEAOC is the largest technical organization of its type. There is no such organization in my neck of the woods, but as a structural engineer I benefit greatly from the research that it does and the technical articles that it publishes. Are the professional and technical enigneering organizations perfect? No. Do I agree with everything that they do or the stances that they take? No. But that is no reason for me not to belong to these organizations.

IAABO is not a perfect organization, nor are some of the local officials associations that I belong to in the four sports that I officiate. But as I have said in the past, you do not have to have an IAABO Board in your area to belong to it. Check out its website and join for a year; try it you might like it. If you do not want to spend the money because there is no local membership then maybe you are in the wrong avocation; I know that we all fill out Schedule C's but the amount of money that we make is not the primary reason that we officiate. IAABO is a national and international organization and it strives to serve all basketball officials.

[Brian Watson]

Mark - I think you may gain a tangible benefit from them because you are on some IAABO boards, but other than the educational materials (newsletter??)what will you gain from them if there are no meetings in your area? My guess is not much. Schedule C or not, I am not in the practice of spending money on stuff I do not see a good return on. I think "will it get me more games" is a fair question. It has nothing to do with cash, but the main reason we ref. Why do we ref? To work as many games a possible. Joining an organization should have a ROI of at least gaining knowledge, experience, and more games. If all I want out of an organization is a regular publication, I get that "other" magazine on the market. When I ask transplants what IAABO does for them now, the usual answer "is not much, I just wanted to keep my membership in case I move back". This was the same thing I did with my old association. I remained a member for a few years and when it was obvious I was not going back any time soon I quit.
I was not getting any benefit out of being a member. If you are a member of 4 associations but you participate minimally in all 4, I would ask is it worth it? I would rather devote 100% of my energy to one association that split that over multiple ones. You can say you belong to all of them, but do you grow spreading yourself around?

As far as being a member of a "respected" organization, I doubt half the coaches or officials in non IAABO states know what it is, what they do, or even care. So, being a member of an organization that pulls no local weight benefits one how?? Again educational materials is not a good enough reason. I also find it hard to believe they are the largest basketball officials association ( I never heard of the group until 3-4 years ago). I know some states make it mandatory, it is their version of the OHSAA, so maybe that is possible. But, I would love to ask all those who have no choice if they would still join if they did have the choice.

[bigwhistle]

Does being an engineer for so many different groups meant that you can drive both passenger and freight trains?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

1) IAABO is the largest basketball officials association in the world with membership of over 15,000 members.

2) Yes, in some parts of the country (both US and Canada), one must be a member of IAABO to officiate basketball. Because a) either the state or province has mandated membership in IAABO or b) the state has delegated the registration of basketball officials to IAABO. In those states in situation (a) it is not unlike being registered to officate high school sports by the OhioHSAA, because everybody is automatically given a membership in NFIOA. I felt this was wrong. I have always been a member of NFIOA becaus I wanted to be a member, but I did not think that membership should necessarily be mandatory. In states where situation (b), the states have said we do not want to train or register basketball officials but we will only use officials who are members of IAABO. This is just like it is in southern California. The CIF does not register basketball officials, but will only use officials who are members of the Southern California Basketball Officials Association (and it was a top-notch basketball officials association when I belonged to it in the early 80's). But I will say it again, if you include getting games as a reason for belonging to a national organization such as IAABO then maybe you are in the wrong avocation.

3) Engineers are people who use mathematics and science to design and construct/manufacture of all manner of products and structures utilizing natural and man-made materials. Engineers do not drive trains. Train drivers drive trains.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Train drivers drive trains.

Not on "Thomas the Tank Engine."

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
To use the excuse that IAABO does not have a presence where I live is just that an excuse, not a reason.

That's an awful high horse you're sitting on Mr. DeNucci. A dissappointing attitude to say the least. Your posts have always been very informative and accurate with regards top the rules. You obviously know the game. But I see know reason for you to criticize others, just because they don't belong to an organization that you hold dear.

Personally, I have no desire to belong to the IAABO. That's not an excuse, it a reason. Unless it would be required of me or would benefit me, why should? Can the IAABO provide me with something that I don't already have? Will I be able to enjoy the comraderie that comes with meeting other IAABO members? Are there clinics in my area, where we can meet and discuss basketball officiating? I wouldn't even know about this organization, had I not learned of it through discussion boards such as this.

If I should belong to this organization just because it exists, then why shouldn't you join the NCHSAA?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I did not imply that every basketball official should join IAABO. But I have basketball officiating friends from all over the country and the almost without exception, the reason that is given for not joining IAABO is that if it doesn't get me more games I am not going to waste my time and money.

I would hope that basketball officials would join IAABO because it is much more that a booking agent in some areas of the country. As I have said before IAABO's primary mission is the education and training of basketball official and it works hand-in-hand with the NFHS to achieve this goal.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
I did not imply that every basketball official should join IAABO. But I have basketball officiating friends from all over the country and almost without exception, the reason that is given for not joining IAABO is that if it doesn't get me more games I am not going to waste my time and money.

To use the excuse that IAABO does not have a presence where I live is just that an excuse, not a reason.

Forgive me but that sounds like an implication to me.

Personally, I don't need more games. I accept what I get and I'm thankful for them. But what's wrong with wanting more games? What's wrong with making use of the tools that an organization has to offer to help one improve and improve their schedule? What's wrong with wanting to be the best you can be and working the best games you can get?

IMHO, the answers are nothing, nothing and nothing.

Best of luck to you!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
I did not imply that every basketball official should join IAABO. But I have basketball officiating friends from all over the country and the almost without exception, the reason that is given for not joining IAABO is that if it doesn't get me more games I am not going to waste my time and money.

I would hope that basketball officials would join IAABO because it is much more that a booking agent in some areas of the country. As I have said before IAABO's primary mission is the education and training of basketball official and it works hand-in-hand with the NFHS to achieve this goal.

Mark, I love the fact that you love your organization. I am with TH on this. I have more than enough games. I already belong to 3 officials associations that are not required by my state. In my state belonging to those organization are encouraged, but it is not a necessary to officiate games in the area. Hell, I do not belong to any associations that give me any games in the first place. I did that because I wanted to get better and attended camps and busted my AZZ to show the right people that I could officiate.

I am sure that IAABO is a good organization, but with very little to no presence in this area or the area I came from, I really do not see the point. I am so glad that they have education and training, but you would have to show me how they have more training and education that I already get from being a member of the current organizations that I belong to. And in my opinion, this board and the publications that I get from NASO is more than enough for me right now. I am not trying to put down IAABO, but I am saying that they are nothing special where I am from. I do belong to an association that I can choose to by a membership into IAABO, but not very many officials are very active in that organization. And I have never heard an official that says, "if you are not in IAABO, the assignors or associations are looking down on you as a result."

Good for you that you are proud of IAABO. Maybe for you IAABO is a valuable resource, but that does not apply to all of us.

Peace

[Brian Watson]

I still fail to see why wanting to work more games makes one a bad person. If you do not want to work as many games as possible, that is your choice, I respect that. On the same note, I would hope people would respect those that want to work as many games as possible, and use the tools at their disposal to do so. One common tool is local associations. I do not see where it is an issue for someone to use the association to get as many games as they can. I feel this is why most of us ref, to work games.

I know guys that only do one to two games a week to keep in shape, and I know addicts that do it 7 days a week for most of the year. I would never tell or suggest someone should hang up the whistle, unless they were in it just for money. You do it for thr love of the game, and that love varies, but wanting to work games is not a bad thing. It still shows the fire burns.