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-   -   What should you do about bad parenting? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/27670-what-should-you-do-about-bad-parenting.html)

Dan_ref Thu Aug 03, 2006 07:09pm

What should you do about bad parenting?
 
Seriously Folks,

The parents where I live have gotten to the point where it's really, really bad. Is there anything an official can do about it or do we just have to learn to tolerate it?

I know parents are people too, and it's a tough job, and they aint getting paid. We officials are working for maybe $10, 20 or in some areas a whopping $30 to $40 per summer game. This past AAU season, it just seemed like the parenting was worse than ever. So far, summer league has been no better.

I'll never forget the game where the parents on the endlines screamed their fool heads off for fouls in the first half, then in the second half scream even louder when you call a foul. Is it too much to ask these parents to expect games be called fairly and not expect every single call to go their way?

One of my main pet peeves is the parent who screams at his teenaged kid that he wasn't being aggressive enough. "Knock him on his azz! Show him what you're made of!!" Then there's the parents that ridicule a teenager because he blew an easy layup, or missed everything on a free throw. I know they're only having fun, but, I mean, come on, try at least to have SOME perpective.

Maybe it's not as wide spread everywhere as it is in my area, but it sure is bad here. Is it because we're not adequately policing and evaluating parents?

What can officials do about it? What is the right approach?

KenThree Thu Aug 03, 2006 07:13pm

Thank you. Couldn't have said it better

JRutledge Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:12pm

This is one of the funniest posts I have seen in a long time.

I needed that laugh. :D

Peace

rainmaker Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:12pm

I agree that it's gotten worse in the last couple of years. Around here it seems like it is worse in some leagues than others, worse in some tournaments than others.

Could you start throwing some of them out? maybe at least move them off the endline, and up into the stands?

You might try talking to them ahead of time, or having coaches do it. In some of our summer leagues, they've started having the coaches do more to control the parents. It's helped quite a bit. But you've got to have game management on your side to pull it off.

Oh, wait, this wasn't a serious post? you were just jabbing at someone who complained about the reffing... okay so there's some egg on my face.

REFVA Fri Aug 04, 2006 06:50am

This is funny,

I have to tell a funny story that happened last night.

I did a championship AAU summer league game. On one side of the court I kept hearing 3 second, 3 seconds 3 seconds. I thought i was loosing my eyesight. Oddly enough at half time I had an opportunity to ask the parents who is yelling 3 seconds I shouldn't have asked but I needed to just to clear my head. A woman turns and said me. I explained what 3 seconds was. She replied thanks, and then she was honest to say. "this is the only call I know".

Which I tend to believe that 90% of the parents don't have a hell of beans knowledge of any rule of basketball.

tjones1 Fri Aug 04, 2006 07:20am

It's extremely bad and it isn't getting any better. It's sad, to say the least. As for summer ball goes, I just don't take it. For the most part in our area we are getting paid $15 per game if not nothing. So it doesn't take too much for me to show them the door.

This summer our association was working a small two-day camp. The officials weren't getting paid anything directly, however there was a small amount of money going to the association's funds. On a floor I wasn't working on, the parents got so bad that the officials just said they had enough and called it a night. Pretty funny.

I don't know, maybe in today's society it's "cool" to look like an idiot and be ejected from a sports contest.

garote Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:03am

I've actually thrown 4 fathers out of AAU games because of their behavior this year.

One of the gyms we have the games at, has 2 sets of bleachers and there is about a 20 foot gap between them for the table. For some unknown reason the top of the bleachers is the spot for these idiots. I'll invariably get 2 dad's shouting or better yet threatening each other across the gap. So I stop play chuck them and go merrily on my way with the game.

On one occasion I had a coach ask "aren't you afraid they'll go at it in the parking lot??"

Don't know why I just want to bust up laughing at that?

REFVA Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:30am

I guess I'm waiting for the day, which will probably never happen and I'll never know if it happens. that maybe one day the kids will shed some light on the parents when they see their father get thrown out and just simply say, " DAD you must be an "A$$, don't embarass me again"

LarryS Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by REFVA
I guess I'm waiting for the day, which will probably never happen and I'll never know if it happens. that maybe one day the kids will shed some light on the parents when they see their father get thrown out and just simply say, " DAD you must be an "A$$, don't embarass me again"

I kinda had that happen a few years ago. I tossed a male (hesitate to call him an "afult" or a "dad" because of his conduct). When I started to administer the throw in the young boy standing there said "Thanks, my dad can be a big pain in the azz at times.". Only problem was that I was the only one that heard him make the comment.

M&M Guy Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:56am

Simple solution:
http://www.rotten.com/library/death/...tine_model.jpg

tjones1 Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy


Dang, I'm in luck. I believe that will fit in my gear bag. What ya think M&M? ;):D

M&M Guy Fri Aug 04, 2006 01:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1
Dang, I'm in luck. I believe that will fit in my gear bag. What ya think M&M? ;):D

With plenty of room to spare!

Dan_ref Fri Aug 04, 2006 01:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy
With plenty of room to spare!

I would bring a seperate laundry bag to carry that thing home after it's used.

But that's just me.

M&M Guy Fri Aug 04, 2006 01:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref
I would bring a seperate laundry bag to carry that thing home after it's used.

But that's just me.

Depends on how many parents it gets used on that night.

Also, you gotta keep the blade sharp; a dull blade has a tendancy to make a bigger mess.

Dan_ref Fri Aug 04, 2006 01:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy
Depends on how many parents it gets used on that night.

Also, you gotta keep the blade sharp; a dull blade has a tendancy to make a bigger mess.

Might be just my area, but the bone heads around here would make keeping that thing sharp a never-ending job.

deecee Fri Aug 04, 2006 01:45pm

you could always join the local parent association and find out the intracasies of being a parent. After all its not science but an art.

You can also learn how we get to learn the rules and how we apply them in the stands and also the philosophy behind our knowledge behind the game. If you need help finding your local parent association please let me know I should be able to help at least with my territory in alaska.

M&M Guy Fri Aug 04, 2006 01:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee
you could always join the local parent association and find out the intracasies of being a parent. After all its not science but an art.

Can't I just read this book and become a parent?

http://ec3.images-amazon.com/images/...CLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Jurassic Referee Fri Aug 04, 2006 02:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I get it.

That relates to the preceding "guillotine" thingy, right? They're both about giving head.

For a minute there, I thought that you mighta been going off-topic.....but you're OK.

26 Year Gap Fri Aug 04, 2006 03:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by garote
I've actually thrown 4 fathers out of AAU games because of their behavior this year.

One of the gyms we have the games at, has 2 sets of bleachers and there is about a 20 foot gap between them for the table. For some unknown reason the top of the bleachers is the spot for these idiots. I'll invariably get 2 dad's shouting or better yet threatening each other across the gap. So I stop play chuck them and go merrily on my way with the game.

On one occasion I had a coach ask "aren't you afraid they'll go at it in the parking lot??"

Don't know why I just want to bust up laughing at that?

And the answer is: "No. I am afraid they won't."

26 Year Gap Fri Aug 04, 2006 04:02pm

I did notice that smurf [the poor man's Barney] did not reply in his thread, so he must me all set now.

Back In The Saddle Fri Aug 04, 2006 04:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I thought these were only authorized for use in FIBA games.

Bad Zebra Fri Aug 04, 2006 04:04pm

Has anyone had the opportunity to clear a gym of everyone except the coaches, players and table personnel? Our local officials have done it several times in the past few years during AAU tournaments. Surprisingly effective when it seems parents have lost all perspective in the stands and sanity becomes a scarce commodity.

Mark Dexter Fri Aug 04, 2006 05:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra
Has anyone had the opportunity to clear a gym of everyone except the coaches, players and table personnel? Our local officials have done it several times in the past few years during AAU tournaments. Surprisingly effective when it seems parents have lost all perspective in the stands and sanity becomes a scarce commodity.

My town's rec department (winter ball) got to the point where they threatened to do this. The next season, the local IAABO board refused to ref their games.

I've learned to just ignore parents, with my only acknowledgement being perhaps a little internal chuckle when I hear the stupid things they say. I was confronted by a parent once after a game; I just gave a quick answer and moved on - probably shouldn't have said anything.

Stan Fri Aug 04, 2006 09:23pm

Maybe this can shed some light on the subject.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/artic...12-000010.html

Stan

refnrev Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge
This is one of the funniest posts I have seen in a long time.

I needed that laugh. :D

Peace

__________________________
Actually, Rut, i have to disagree with you. I think it's one of the saddest because it is so true!:(

ChrisSportsFan Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1
Dang, I'm in luck. I believe that will fit in my gear bag. What ya think M&M? ;):D

Just take a roll of Duct Tape. It's lighter and doesn't make as much mess.

refnrev Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy
With plenty of room to spare!

_______________________
And. M&M, he'll have an extra one for you just in case you forgot yours!!!:D

rainmaker Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan
Maybe this can shed some light on the subject.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/artic...12-000010.html

Stan

I don't know, Stan. That's pretty simplistic -- the article, I mean. But whether or not I agree on that subject, I'm not sure it's relevant to the topic of parents who scream at refs.

I know this thread was started in jest, but it is a serious issue, and one that affects more and more people. I think the main problem is that parents believe that "anything worth doing is worth being perfect at" and they really can't see that a healthy childhood includes a lot of mediocre performance. These are the same parents who scream at teachers for giving the kids B's instead of A's, and then scream at the kids for "slacking off." It's okay for kids to "slack off" and go to community college, and live in two-room apartments, and take the bus. There's no shame in not being Michael Jordan, or Lisa Leslie.

Back In The Saddle Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan
Maybe this can shed some light on the subject.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/artic...12-000010.html

Stan

Very interesting article. Thanks, Stan.

tjones1 Sat Aug 05, 2006 01:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSportsFan
Just take a roll of Duct Tape. It's lighter and doesn't make as much mess.

Nah, if we're going to do it, we probably should go all out. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by refnrev
_______________________
And. M&M, he'll have an extra one for you just in case you forgot yours!!!:D

Good point, I've to stay consistent. I've got two shirts, two pants, and now.... two.... :D Way to be looking out for me refnrev!

Bad Zebra Sat Aug 05, 2006 09:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan
Maybe this can shed some light on the subject.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/artic...12-000010.html

Stan

This article is a great read. I see it as a very relevant link to insane parental behavior. The article is describing "helicopter parents". Hovering over EVERY facet of their kids' lives, including time spent in organized sports. That mentality manifests itself quite nicely when little Trevor or Joshua or Ashley is called for a foul...and mommy and daddy have to jump right in and "fix it". Their only option is to make the official the problem, not their little prince or princess' behavior. Maybe we should carry business cards for a local mental health pro and hand it out when someone fouls out.

Stan Sat Aug 05, 2006 09:55am

Rainmaker, I agree, the article is a bit simplistic. However, I think it is applicable to the conversation. Excerpts of the article in red.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
I don't know, Stan. That's pretty simplistic -- the article, I mean. But whether or not I agree on that subject, I'm not sure it's relevant to the topic of parents who scream at refs.

Kids are having a hard time even playing neighborhood pick-up games because they've never done it, observes Barbara Carlson, president and cofounder of Putting Families First. "They've been told by their coaches where on the field to stand, told by their parents what color socks to wear, told by the referees who's won and what's fair. Kids are losing leadership skills."

I know this thread was started in jest, but it is a serious issue, and one that affects more and more people. I think the main problem is that parents believe that "anything worth doing is worth being perfect at" and they really can't see that a healthy childhood includes a lot of mediocre performance.

Parents need to abandon the idea of perfection and give up some of the invasive control they've maintained over their children. The goal of parenting, Portmann reminds, is to raise an independent human being. Sooner or later, he says, most kids will be forced to confront their own mediocrity.

These are the same parents who scream at teachers for giving the kids B's instead of A's, and then scream at the kids for "slacking off."

American parents today expect their children to be perfect—the smartest, fastest, most charming people in the universe..

It's okay for kids to "slack off" and go to community college, and live in two-room apartments, and take the bus.

—it's possible to get a meaningful education almost anywhere. Further, argues historian Stearns, there are ample openings for students at an array of colleges. "We have a competitive frenzy that frankly involves parents more than it involves kids themselves,"

There's no shame in not being Michael Jordan, or Lisa Leslie.


CLH Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:06pm

I think I've made a statement, good or bad, my stats this summer are. 3 coaches tossed, and 4 parents send home early, and technicals on many more coaches. Call me a hothead, but I don't have a very long rope with these idiots.

Oh and get this one, we tossed a coach and the administrator brought him back in at a time out to ask why he was ejected. Of course we were like what the hell are you doing? Then in a later game, admin tried to put 30 secs back on the clock that was ran off during a foul out substition, clock runs no matter what by their rules. Then later, we toss a fan, HE BRINGS HIM BACK IN! Not once, not twice, 3 f$%#'n times he let's the guy come back in and we stop the game to get him back out. Somtimes it's just one of those days. :D

rainmaker Sat Aug 05, 2006 04:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLH
I think I've made a statement, good or bad, my stats this summer are. 3 coaches tossed, and 4 parents send home early, and technicals on many more coaches. Call me a hothead, but I don't have a very long rope with these idiots.

Oh and get this one, we tossed a coach and the administrator brought him back in at a time out to ask why he was ejected. Of course we were like what the hell are you doing? Then in a later game, admin tried to put 30 secs back on the clock that was ran off during a foul out substition, clock runs no matter what by their rules. Then later, we toss a fan, HE BRINGS HIM BACK IN! Not once, not twice, 3 f$%#'n times he let's the guy come back in and we stop the game to get him back out. Somtimes it's just one of those days. :D


Two weeks later...

administrator calls CLS: "Hey can you work some games for me this weekend?"

CLS: "Only if you're paying $150 per game!"

26 Year Gap Sat Aug 05, 2006 04:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra
This article is a great read. I see it as a very relevant link to insane parental behavior. The article is describing "helicopter parents". Hovering over EVERY facet of their kids' lives, including time spent in organized sports. That mentality manifests itself quite nicely when little Trevor or Joshua or Ashley is called for a foul...and mommy and daddy have to jump right in and "fix it". Their only option is to make the official the problem, not their little prince or princess' behavior. Maybe we should carry business cards for a local mental health pro and hand it out when someone fouls out.

Remember when players had to raise their hand when they were called for a foul? Can you imagine if that was still in the rulebook today?

Back In The Saddle Sat Aug 05, 2006 06:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
Remember when players had to raise their hand when they were called for a foul? Can you imagine if that was still in the rulebook today?

Perhaps we should reinstate that rule, to help little Johnny learn to take responsibility for his own actions. The hard part would be helping the coaches understand this concept. :D

BktBallRef Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLH
I think I've made a statement, good or bad, my stats this summer are. 3 coaches tossed, and 4 parents send home early, and technicals on many more coaches. Call me a hothead, but I don't have a very long rope with these idiots.

NC AAU Girls has a great rule. If you toss the parent, the daughter goes to. Talk about cleaning things up!!!

tjones1 Sun Aug 06, 2006 03:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef
NC AAU Girls has a great rule. If you toss the parent, the daughter goes to. Talk about cleaning things up!!!

I'd go for this! How about a step farther? Whoever gets tossed, anyone assoicated with that person goes too.

26 Year Gap Sun Aug 06, 2006 07:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1
I'd go for this! How about a step farther? Whoever gets tossed, anyone assoicated with that person goes too.

Are you from the midwest?

ChrisSportsFan Sun Aug 06, 2006 07:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
Are you from the midwest?

I am and it would be fun to tell them to: "take your teeth with you!"

tjones1 Sun Aug 06, 2006 01:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
Are you from the midwest?

I am. Why do you ask?

Stan Sun Aug 06, 2006 02:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1
I'd go for this! How about a step farther? Whoever gets tossed, anyone assoicated with that person goes too.

- and the horse they rode in on.

dblref Mon Aug 07, 2006 05:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by REFVA
I guess I'm waiting for the day, which will probably never happen and I'll never know if it happens. that maybe one day the kids will shed some light on the parents when they see their father get thrown out and just simply say, " DAD you must be an "A$$, don't embarass me again"

I had something similar happen a couple of years ago during a summer league game (non-AAU) when a young lady (about 12-13 years old) missed the first of 2 free throws and her mom yelled at her to "get her head in the game". It was really quite in the gym and the player put the ball on the floor, turned to her mom and said "if you think it's so easy, why don't you come down here and do it, otherwise, SHUT UP!" I hate to think of the conversation in the car on the way home. BTW, the mom never said a word after that.

dblref Mon Aug 07, 2006 05:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra
Has anyone had the opportunity to clear a gym of everyone except the coaches, players and table personnel? Our local officials have done it several times in the past few years during AAU tournaments. Surprisingly effective when it seems parents have lost all perspective in the stands and sanity becomes a scarce commodity.

I think this happened in MD. last year. Seems that the parents were getting out of hand and on one particular Saturday, the only people allowed into the gym were the teams and the officials.

26 Year Gap Mon Aug 07, 2006 04:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1
I am. Why do you ask?

cuz back east we say 'step father' :D

26 Year Gap Mon Aug 07, 2006 04:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblref
I had something similar happen a couple of years ago during a summer league game (non-AAU) when a young lady (about 12-13 years old) missed the first of 2 free throws and her mom yelled at her to "get her head in the game". It was really quite in the gym and the player put the ball on the floor, turned to her mom and said "if you think it's so easy, why don't you come down here and do it, otherwise, SHUT UP!" I hate to think of the conversation in the car on the way home. BTW, the mom never said a word after that.

Come on and tell us. Did the 2nd one go in?

Mregor Thu Aug 17, 2006 07:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Seriously Folks,

What can officials do about it? What is the right approach?

Quit working those games. :D

Mregor

kiwiref Fri Aug 18, 2006 09:07am

To sum it all up...
 
I think that the problem is not going to get any better in the future. Just ignoring the idiots will work to a certain extent, but eventually they will see the lack of action from the officials as a tacit approval for their behaviour, and things will start getting worse. This means that the very nature of how we manage the game will have to be slightly modified.
Here's what I would like to suggest. Establish a code of conduct for for parents, and make it very clear that breaches will result in eviction from the venue. Second, make the home team responsible for enforcing the rules. Any breach that is not being dealt with appropriately will lead to forfeit of the game at the discretion of the referees, and a possible financial fine later on. Yes, this would mean that the home team will have to organise security arrangements to be able to deal with idiots. But that's a small price to pay compared to the cost of an increased number of referees refusing to work certain areas/associations/schools etc. Also, we are already struggling to recruit new referees in many sports because young people do not want to put up with the abuse they are witnessing. So, I say time to clear up.

REFVA Fri Aug 18, 2006 09:35am

Quote:

Here's what I would like to suggest. Establish a code of conduct for for parents, and make it very clear that breaches will result in eviction from the venue. Second, make the home team responsible for enforcing the rules. Any breach that is not being dealt with appropriately will lead to forfeit of the game at the discretion of the referees, and a possible financial fine later on. Yes, this would mean that the home team will have to organise security arrangements to be able to deal with idiots. But that's a small price to pay compared to the cost of an increased number of referees refusing to work certain areas/associations/schools etc. Also, we are already struggling to recruit new referees in many sports because young people do not want to put up with the abuse they are witnessing. So, I say time to clear up.
Amen! How do we officials enforce to get that in place

dave30 Tue Aug 22, 2006 03:14pm

I have had a kid apologize to me for the actions of his Dad. That was pretty cool.

Back In The Saddle Wed Aug 23, 2006 09:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave30
I have had a kid apologize to me for the actions of his Dad. That was pretty cool.

I've had that too.

swvaref Wed Aug 23, 2006 08:20pm

I had situation with a AAU game (16 and up) A1 going to basket on a`still partner had foul Im under basket A1 had a few words with the other player I would not give him his freethrows until he dropped the attitude. During a timeout the coached got his explanation and was thankful. After the game the kid and his parent apoligized the parent was more thankful than the kid was


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