Blowout Officiating

[Gary Brendemuehl]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

You sound like a coach. Did you not read anything in the POE from last year? Please read the bold face print below. It plainly states that the hand does not have to come under the ball for it to be palmed.

2000-2001 NF POE
Palming
Offensive players "palming" the ball continue to gain a tremendous advantage over defensive player(s). Emphasis is not only to be given to the dribbler's hand position, but also the activity of the ball while the dribble is occurring. "Palming" not only occurs while the palm is facing "skyward," but can also occur while the palm is facing the floor. The key to officiating this play consistently and correctly is to determine if the ball has "come to rest" (4-15-4 b). Where we are seeing a definite advantage to the offensive player is on the hesitation "move" to beat a defender (toward the basket or just to go by them). In many of these instances, the ball is "coming to rest" in the dribbler's hand. A violation must be called by the official, as there is no way to legally defend against this move.

Right. As the POE states: "...The key to officiating this play consistently and correctly is to determine if the ball has "come to rest..." You don't determine it by an ill-defined term called "steering".

[BktBallRef]

But that doesn't address your comments. You said that the ball must be grabbed or the hand must go past vertical for the ball to be palmed. That simply isn't true.

Steering is just a termed that Juulie used. What's the big deal? My interpretation is that she's probably making the right call.

[Gary Brendemuehl]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
But that doesn't address your comments. You said that the ball must be grabbed or the hand must go past vertical for the ball to be palmed. That simply isn't true.

How does a ball come to rest in a hand? You have the force of gravity pushing the ball to the floor. If the ball is to come to rest in the hand, then you must grab the ball or have some part the the hand applying an upward force. If the ball comes to rest in the hand during a hesistation move, then I maintain that the hand must have grabbed the ball or gome past vertical and applied an upward force.

Steering is just a termed that Juulie used. What's the big deal? My interpretation is that she's probably making the right call.

Then I can assume you don't have a problem with "Over the Back"?

[Stripes130]

Rule 4; Sec 15; Art 4b states:"Theh dribble ends when: The dribbler palms/carries the ball........etc.
I have not seen the term "palm" used here yet, I believe that palming DOES defy gravity. I have a small hand and since I can palm a ball off the dribble then I would assume that most other players can too. (palming meaning keeping the palm of the hand directly facing the floor but gripping the ball so that it "sticks" to the hand.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Gary Brendemuehl
Steering is just a termed that Juulie used. What's the big deal? My interpretation is that she's probably making the right call.

Then I can assume you don't have a problem with "Over the Back"? [/QUOTE]

Never heard a fan, player, or coach yell, "He's steering the ball!"

It's simply the term that Juulie chose to use to describe it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Stripes130
Rule 4; Sec 15; Art 4b states:"Theh dribble ends when: The dribbler palms/carries the ball........etc.
I have not seen the term "palm" used here yet, I believe that palming DOES defy gravity. I have a small hand and since I can palm a ball off the dribble then I would assume that most other players can too. (palming meaning keeping the palm of the hand directly facing the floor but gripping the ball so that it "sticks" to the hand.

What are you talking about?

[Richard Ogg]

I had a 14 AAU game one time that was developing into a blowout. As we broke for half-time I spoke to the coach that was ahead. I suggested that frustrations were mounting on the other team and maybe they shouldn't press every time. After the half-time he told me he spoke with the opposing coach and the opposing coach wanted the opportunity to work on breaking the press. (He was within hearing range.) I said that was fine, as long as player frustrations didn't grow to the point that someone might get hurt. I emphasized that I inteded to deal with play that pushed those frustrations too high. Both coaches agreed and understood. OK, I win one. (Don't ask for my score! )

I've also been told that there are no blowouts until the 4th quarter. This avoids the comebacks others mentioned. I tend to agree, but there are exceptions. My 5th grade girls game was 18-3 at half-time only because:

• the team with 18 was making 5 or so passes before shooting and
  
• making no effort for offensive rebounds.
  
• They were also keeping their defense inside the 3-point arc.
  
• The skilled players were getting very little playing time, and only one at a time.
  
• The team behind did not know how to dribble nor shoot.
  

We were in no danger of a comeback. We ignored no fouls. We ignored some violations, but it was not an issue of teaching these girls that something else was legal. Our goal was to hope the losing team managed to get to mid-court without losing the ball on their own. No one was showing any signs of frustration, and that aspect of game management is valuable.

I suspect the game someone had that ended 78-9 (or whatever) was obviously a blowout by the 3rd quarter.

[Stripes130]

Originally posted by BktBallRef


What are you talking about? [/B]

Someone had said something about not being able to carry or steer without putting the hand under or mostly on the side of the ball. I forget who it was but they were talking about gravity. What I was trying to say is that just because the hand is totally on TOP of the ball does not mean that it is not possible to carry the ball. Like I said, if you can palm the ball off the dribble, you can gain an advantage by palming the ball, causing a pause in the dribble.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Stripes130

Someone had said something about not being able to carry or steer without putting the hand under or mostly on the side of the ball. I forget who it was but they were talking about gravity. What I was trying to say is that just because the hand is totally on TOP of the ball does not mean that it is not possible to carry the ball. Like I said, if you can palm the ball off the dribble, you can gain an advantage by palming the ball, causing a pause in the dribble. [/B]

You are correct. Just because the hand doesn't go past vertical doe not mean that the ball isn't being carried or palmed.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Richard Ogg
I had a 14 AAU game one time that was developing into a blowout. As we broke for half-time I spoke to the coach that was ahead. I suggested that frustrations were mounting on the other team and maybe they shouldn't press every time. After the half-time he told me he spoke with the opposing coach and the opposing coach wanted the opportunity to work on breaking the press. (He was within hearing range.) I said that was fine, as long as player frustrations didn't grow to the point that someone might get hurt. I emphasized that I inteded to deal with play that pushed those frustrations too high. Both coaches agreed and understood. OK, I win one. (Don't ask for my score! )

I've also been told that there are no blowouts until the 4th quarter. This avoids the comebacks others mentioned. I tend to agree, but there are exceptions. My 5th grade girls game was 18-3 at half-time only because:

• the team with 18 was making 5 or so passes before shooting and
  
• making no effort for offensive rebounds.
  
• They were also keeping their defense inside the 3-point arc.
  
• The skilled players were getting very little playing time, and only one at a time.
  
• The team behind did not know how to dribble nor shoot.
  

We were in no danger of a comeback. We ignored no fouls. We ignored some violations, but it was not an issue of teaching these girls that something else was legal. Our goal was to hope the losing team managed to get to mid-court without losing the ball on their own. No one was showing any signs of frustration, and that aspect of game management is valuable.

I suspect the game someone had that ended 78-9 (or whatever) was obviously a blowout by the 3rd quarter.

With respect to all this blowout talk, why can't we all just
ignore the score? We're not out there to make sure each
game is competetive. Our only concern in these games should
be to make sure the players continue to focus on the game
(no cheap shots, taunting, etc) and to enforce any local
mercy rules (no press, etc). We shouldn't make up our own
set of mercy rules and we should almost never (some wise
man recently said to never say never) tell a coach how to
play his team.

[JeffRef]

(1) Pregame it! and be prepared for it...understand the emotions involved with a blowout.

(2) Never lose control of the game...look for the emotions of the players/coaches and keep your ears open. Diffuse even the smallest confrontation immediately and sternly.

(3) Try to improve the flow of the game...keep dead ball situations to a minimum by using good game management and awareness. Hustle "double time" to get the ball back in play. (Limiting dead ball time will decrease the likliehood of a flare up.)

(4) Any adjustments to your crew's officiating style should come as a result of game control...not because one team is weaker/stronger.

(5) Look good...hustle and keep your mechanics sharp. You never know who is watching.

(6) Steer clear of both coaches (unless absolutely necessary)...the losing coach is likely to be emotional and therefore more apt to explode. The winning coach shouldn't have much to say anyway and if he/she is running up the score is probably an ***hole and who likes to talk to an ***hole?

[rainmaker]

Regarding "Steering": If you want to see what I am talking about, watch the movie "Love and Basketball." In the scene called, "Second Quarter" there is a clip where the male lead (can't remember his name) is bieng shown how good he is. He slides the ball sideways past the defender, while taking about four steps. This is the definitive play that I call steering. Now, I know the steps are NOT illegal. I only put that part of the sentence in, so you can know which scene I'm talking about. I've heard this called a "Hesitation Move," but I think of "steering" as a sub-category of "Hesitation".

Regarding a press during the blowout, I did say once to a coach, "Some coaches see a press with a 40 point lead as a sign of insecurity and over-compensation..." I said it as the play was moving up the floor and I didn't stop to get a response. Thinking back, it sounds kind of like a bad idea, but it worked...