Blood Rule Situation

[Damian]

If I was there, I would allow the coach to change jerseys without any administrative technical fouls.

The spirit is to keep players safe from illness that could be transferred from the blood. Since there was only 1:15 left and either team had a chance to win, I would allow a broad range of choices including letting subs jearseys be worn providing that they did not return the rest of the game.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Damian

If I was there, I would allow the coach to change jerseys without any administrative technical fouls.

I hope so since the rules allow a player to change jerseys in such a situation without penalty.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nope, Camron did not say that . I did. Camron said "The former rule allowed some amount of blood on the shirt. The new rule allows none. That's an incorrect and misleading statement imo.

That was a fully correct statement and the case play cited by Chuck backs it up.

The new rule requires that a player leave with any amount of blood...even if it dried 3 weeks ago. If there is blood the player must leave.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

First off, it is not a new rule; it's the old rule clarified. And the old rule did not allow any blood anywhere if that blood was transferable.

It did allow non-transferable blood, however. The new rule allows none...transferable or not.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It says that it's a just a clarification( editorial change) on the FED web site also, which is where BillyMac got that cite from.

It doesn't matter what they call it...they materially changed the meaning of the rule. That is not a clarification.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Again, the FED is just clarifying that it really doesn't matter where on a player the blood is, if it's transferable, buh-bye.

No, they're saying if there is blood, ANY BLOOD, the player must leave. There is no language to allow non-transferable blood to remain.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Also afaik, you are still allowed some blood spots on a shirt as long as those spots are dried or chemically-treated so that they are not transferable.

"any" is not the same as "some".

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That's the way that I've always understood the rule,right from it's inception, and that's the way that we've been teaching it. I might be wrong, of course. It certainly wouldn't be the first time. But I'd like to see something- anything- in writing that says different.

That is the way I understood it (the old rule) too, but the new wording doesn't agree with that.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Damian

If I was there, I would allow the coach to change jerseys without any administrative technical fouls.

Sure but not into a substitutes uniform. It would have to be to a backup jersey withthe same number.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Sure but not into a substitutes uniform. It would have to be to a backup jersey withthe same number.

Not true.

There's no requirement that the jersey be the same number. That's why the rule allows the number to be changed in the score book without penalty.

3.2.2 SITUATION E:
Team A properly submits its team member list and designates the five starters as required at least 10 minutes before the scheduled start of the game. Anytime thereafter, either before the game starts or during the game, the coach asks the scorer to change a number in the scorebook: (a) so it corresponds to what the team member is wearing; (b) because a player's shirt has excessive blood on it; or (c) because a player's shirt is torn.

RULING: In (a), a technical foul is charged to Team A. In (b) and (c), the shirt is changed and the number change made in the scorebook without any penalty.

[rainmaker]

That's a lot of heat to generate from a troll! This guy is good!

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Not true.

There's no requirement that the jersey be the same number. That's why the rule allows the number to be changed in the score book without penalty.

My mistake, but do you agree it can't be a substitutes jersey especially if the player has been into the game at some point .

[BktBallRef]

No, I don't. I don't see any reason why the coach couldn't use a sub's jersey. He would have to remove the sub from any further possible participation. That's his choice, not mine. We should do what we can to let the kid play, without throwing up road blocks.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

No, I don't. I don't see any reason why the coach couldn't use a sub's jersey. He would have to remove the sub from any further possible participation. That's his choice, not mine. We should do what we can to let the kid play, without throwing up road blocks.

Well thats one we will have to disagree on then. I would not allow a player to use a subs jersey if the sub has already been in the game. I actually have a hard time allowing a player to change to another number but can see it would be alright as long as all the soresheet info went with him.

I suppose by that thinking then the sub would no longer be allowed to participate further in the game and the original player would have to have all his fouls and such transfered along withthe new number. OK, I am starting to convince myself, but with some hesitation.

Smoke

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Well thats one we will have to disagree on then. I would not allow a player to use a subs jersey if the sub has already been in the game.

Why? What rule prevents this?

I actually have a hard time allowing a player to change to another number but can see it would be alright as long as all the soresheet info went with him.

Why? Especially when this is specifically allowed by rule, as Tony has already pointed out to you.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

My mistake, but do you agree it can't be a substitutes jersey especially if the player has been into the game at some point .

Sure it can. Read case play 3.3.6 Situation A.

Z

[BktBallRef]

3.3.6 SITUATION A:
B1 is directed to leave the game because of excessive blood on his/her uniform shirt. Team B's manager has failed to pack any extra shirts. (a) The coach asks one of the substitutes to give his/her shirt to B1; or (b) Team A is able to find a shirt which B1 can wear even though it is not exactly the same color or style of the Team B shirts. The shirt will however, clearly identify B1 as a member of Team B and will not be confusing to either team or the officials.

RULING: Acceptable procedure in both (a) and (b). In both situations the scorer will make necessary changes in the scorebook without penalty.

COMMENT: The spirit and intent of the rule is to do everything possible to allow the player to use a different shirt and return without penalty. However, identical numbers shall not be allowed on the same team.

[SmokeEater]

You all never completely read my post. I had convinced myself as I was typing and reading what Tony said. Yes I originally disagree withthe concept of allowing a sub to hand over their uniform. I know its legal in NF rules but have not been able to specifically find reference in NCAA or FIBA. DOn't necessarily have to agree with it but I DO UNDERSTAND what you say.

Please don't jump all over someone's Opinion just because its different from yours.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

No, the fouls would not transfer from the sub's number to the injured player.

I never meant that. I said the player who is getting the new jersey would have all of their scoresheet information (fouls, etc) transfered to the new number as well.

[BktBallRef]

Just erase the number by the player's name and write in the new number. Nothing really transfers, the number just changes.

No one is jumping on your opinion, we're just trying to help you understand that it's legal. In this case, we're provided documentation. As for NCAA, if it doesn't say it's illegal, them it's legal. As for FEEBLE, who cares?