Spectator interference at a critical point
 

I had a game (yes, intramural league, but there were probably 75 spectators there because it was late in the playoffs) where a shot went up just before the buzzer. The shot, had it been good, would have changed the outcome of the game. A spectator sitting near the front row at that end of the gym threw a basketball that he had been holding onto the court, toward the basket, and it contacted the game ball headed for the basket. It was entirely possible, based on the way the shot looked, that it could have gone in the basket.

The spectator was not there for any specific team - he was looking to get out on the court after the game. It was not intended to interfere with the shot (I know the kid pretty well - he admitted this afterwards, and I believe him). Obviously he was disciplined.

Extra information aside, how would you deal with this kind of interference which clearly could have affected the outcome of a game? It's possible (however unlikely) that something similar could happen in a real game - we all know anything and everything eventually does happen. What do you do? I honestly don't think there is a solution (short of a lynch mob for the spectator - haha j/k) that would make anyone happy, even if there is a solution. But I am curious to see how people would respond to this from an officials' point of view.

Wow. Just wow.

I think the obvious answer in the rec league setting would be to go to overtime. It would give both teams a chance to get past the roadblock in deciding a winner, and it would punish the guy who is so anxious to get out there and play.

I posted this a few months ago, but it bears repeating on this thread.

I was calling a boys varsity game between two good teams (visitors went to the FL 4A state final four that year) in a cramped, packed small town Florida gym 4 years ago. Game management was usually hard to find in most of these gyms and this one was no exception.

Visiting team brings the ball in to start the 2nd half, swings it around the top to their best player (A1) in the corner who shoots a 3-pointer next to their bench. I'm C on that side standing right next to their coach. As A1 elevates, two kids about 8-9 years old come running in from the lobby across the corner of the floor right in front of and kind of up and under the shooter and then straight into the stands. There were no defensive players within 5-6 feet of A1. I wasn't sure what to do, but I didn't want to blow the whistle as he was going up for his shot and possibly deny him a 3-pointer. He missed the shot but his team got the rebound. As they took the ball back out top to set up their next play, the coach (a very good coach who focused much more on coaching than on ref-baiting) just looked at me in disbelief and asked what I was going to do. I told him I didn't want to deny the shot, and besides, I wasn't sure what to do. He actually said he had no idea either, and since his team got the rebound he seemed happy and let it go.

Are small town gyms the best or what? :)

I guess i'm looking more for how to handle it during a regular season game... in our area, there's gyms small enough that something like the other situation could happen, intentionally or not.

My initial reaction is the same as Rainmaker's. Take charge, get both coaches together and tell them that because of the interference against a shot that could have gone in and won the game, but also might not have, we're going to decide the game in overtime. Jump ball in one minute, Guys; good luck! I think I'd handle it that way during the season as well.

My initial reaction is to stop play due to the interference. If you can determine the action was to favor one team or the other and intentional, then a T is waranted. Otherwise I would go with who had possesion or use the alternating possesion arrow to get the play going again.

Again thats just my initial reaction. I don't know if there is anything inthe rules to support any of this.

According to the OP, this happened right at the end of the game. The shot was intended to be a buzzer-beater.

This is a very tough situation. If the game was tied and the shot was for the win, I wouldn't do anything and we'd just go to OT. If the shot was by the team that was trailing, that's a much tougher scenario. There's no rule that would allow you to award points for this. In a regular season game, it's much more likely that the person who threw the ball would be rooting for the other team, so you have the T at your disposal.

If, for some reason, you couldn't justify the T, you could suspend the game with whatever time was on the clock (which I realize was very little, if any)and write a report and let the league determine how to finish the game. That's not a very appetizing option, though.

I don't know what you really could do, except assess the T.

Yeah but if it was a 3 pt attempt at the buzzer the T means nothing, doesn't it?

This is an ugly situation. I hope it happens to you before it happens to me.

;)

Make it a 3 shot T.

You are correct
 

This is a great question... and one that when it happens, regardless of what age, skill or league will surely stir up questions.

Just remember that according to Rule 2 Section 3 (NHFS) & Rule 2 Section 3 Artile 1 (NCAA) "the referee shall be empowered to make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules."

Therefore, in a situation like this one, where there is no rule on spectator interference; what you say, goes!:cool:

With the assumption that the person interfering with the play was not connected with either team. There is no rule in the book addressing game interruptions of this nature...not by team members or spectator connected to a team.

The obvious possibilities are neither supported by rule nor supported by the the spirit and intent of the rule.

• Doing nothing (the shooting team was put at a disadvantage not intended by the rules...can't assume that it would have missed)
• Counting the basket (the defending team would be put at a disadvantage not intended by the rules...can't assume that it would have gone)
• Calling a T (on who??).

So, what to do? Whatever the solution, it should be one that gives each team a fair chance to win going forward. With time having expired or nearly so, you couldn't have a alternating possession...that would be equivalent to one of the above...game over.

You could put time back on the clock (enough to run 1 play...say 20 or 30 seconds). Going with restoring time, it's not double jeapardy since we have no idea if the shot was good or not. Give A a chance to run a play, let B defend it.

You could declare an overtime. That could have implications...foul trouble or stamina issues that neither team would have otherwise faced.

I think I'd put time back on the clock and replay the possession. It seems like the most fair and equitable thing to do.

:)

Except it is addressed

Section 10. Officials’ Duties Related to Conduct
The officials shall:
Art. 1. Penalize unsportsmanlike conduct by a player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.
A.R. 14. Who is responsible for behavior of spectators? RULING: The home management or game committee, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators, is responsible. The officials may call indirect technical fouls on either team when its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game, such technical fouls do not count as team fouls
A.R. 15. After a foul is called against a home team player, just before the free-thrower releases the ball, he/she is hit by a coin thrown by a spectator. RULING: Assess an indirect technical foul against the home team, award the visiting team two free throws and put the ball in play at the point of interruption. (See Rule 10-5.2.)

ummmmm
 

Good point, except that is an example of a deadball situation - free throws. What happens in a live ball situation where the potential shot could be worth 3 points?

A.R. 14. Who is responsible for behavior of spectators? RULING: The home management or game committee, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators, is responsible. The officials may call indirect technical fouls on either team when its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game, such technical fouls do not count as team fouls

Bravo Dan... Bravo....

Gentlemen, I think Dan just answered your question (at least the way NCAA expects you to do so).

What about a neutral court game, like a tournament?

There is no home management, or the home management may not be from one of the teams competing.

Just for kicks, assume that not only something like this happens, but also it is the NCAA Div I Men's Championship game. :D

That would rank right up there with the parachute jumper falling in on Bowe v Lewis (? i think) in the middle of a round.

Remember, however... in this situation, I clearly stated that the person involved had nothing to do with either team. This might not be so clear in a real game situation, but lets say it is an overexuberant 12 year old who knows the gym will be open after the game, and just jumps the gun on throwing the ball out on the court to get ready to play. Penalizing either team with a T would be unfair to that team, as the person didn't act for or against either - it was just a bad timing and aim issue.

I like the 30 second time reset, with overtime being my second favorite. But the overtime might be a better sell... I think you'd have trouble with getting the coaches to be happy with the 30 second thing. JMHO. I'm glad to see it is a situation that generated some conversation!

Hey!! I answered it the same way 10 hours sooner!! Don't I get some dap?

Bravo Chuck... Bravo


(does that make you feel better?)

I agree!!! Good point!

Huh?:confused:

The ball is live on a free throw as soon as the FT shooter gets it. You can't score with a dead ball. That's a basketball basic.

Immeasurably!! :D

Good.

Now you can go climb up your tree & really have a good time.

:p

Similar Play, Please Respond This Time
 

This play really happened a few months ago. I have discussed it with several officials and cannot seem to get a clear intepretation. I posted it on this Forum a few months ago, but it didn't seem to generate a lot of interest, so I'll try again:

NFHS Rules. High school varsity game. Small, crowded gymnasium. Not much room outside the sidelines.

Point guard A1 passes to wing A2, who, unfortunately was making a V-cut toward the basket. I am the trail official and I know for sure that the ball will definitely go out of bounds on the sideline on the opposite side of the floor from me. My partner is the lead official and it's his sideline to cover. At that second, a fan, holding a hot dog from the concession stand, while trying to get back to his seat, while totally inbounds, both feet, on the playing surface, is struck by the ball which keeps it from going out of bounds. Player A2 comes back from his V-cut to pick up the loose ball and play continues. My partner and I were both dumb-founded, and allowed the play to continue with no whistle. No coaches complained. No parents complained.

Is there a call here? Is the fan treated like an offical on the court, as part of the floor? If a coach or substitute had been struck by a ball under the same circumstances, we could have called a technical foul for the coach being out of the coaching box or for a sixth player being on the floor.

Please cite an NFHS rule or case book reference. I am also willing to accept NCAA, FIBA, NBA, or WNBA citations. Help.

I don't know how my name got dragged into M&M's tree. The real question is what would happen if M&M was having a good time up in his tree and a 12-year old kid threw a basketball at him to try to get him down.

He was using your hand.

Billy, I don't think that there's anything definitively covering it under NFHS or NCAA rules. This is probably one of the very few times that NFHS 2-3 can be used. From a logical standpoint, I'd say that if you were sure that the pass was gonna go OOB untouched, then blow the whistle and give team B the ball OOB at that spot for fan interference. That's seems like the fair call to me and I don't think that you'd get too many arguments over that.

Note that I certainly can't fault you for letting the play continue. That play certainly rates a "whatinthehell?". :)

Sigh...

Chuck, you can go ahead and get in the tree. I guess I'm done with it for now.

Can I give you a hand?

:eek:

How do you know the guy that threw the ball up was a supporter of either team? Without knowing something like this, how can you asses the T?

I agree with these comments as well. Call the fan interference right away. Give the ball to the defense and move along.

While I disagree with just giving the ball to the defence in this case, I also don't think you can just award an indirect T to the coach. There are many situations that can occur. What if this T is the third T for the coach? Now because of an unsupporting fan, he has to leave?

What ever happens, needs to happen quick. I think this biggest thing between your call going smoothly and having problems is you need to sell it. Make the call. Tell the coaches. Sell it like you've made that call a million times before and move on. You will have to do it quickly, because the last thing a coach wants to see in this situation, is you not knowing what to do!

1) Where did you come up with that?:confused: You're completely wrong under both NCAA and NFHS rules. In both rulesets, if a technical foul is called on a team's fans, that "T" is charged to the <b>team</b>. The head coach doesn't get charged with any kind of technical foul. Re-read what Dan_Ref and Chuck wrote.

2)So......you disagree with giving the balll to the defense. What would you do instead? What call are you going to sell?

From a FIBA point of view the situation is quite simple.

We simply do nothing, since we can't call anything like a technical foul on a spectator. The match ends and we report whatever happened to the federation judge, who would most likely declare the team which had the shot diverted winner (0-20) and fine the opponents, for they had not prevented their spectators from interfering with the game.

Why would you have a problem giving the ball to the defense? The Offense made the pass it was evidently going out of bounds according to the OP (sorry BillyMac's OP). Blow the whistle make your signal, going this way, move along. Of course if D had deflected the pass then thats another story right!

My Bad....
 

First of all, I appoligize for the confusion. When I made my comments, I thought we were still speaking of the original post which was fan interference during a shot - not a pass intended to be out of bounds. If the ball was intended to go out of bounds, I agree, give it to the defence.

My reference to selling the call would be in the case of the shot. If that were the case, there is no call that any referee makes that is going to make everyone happy.

In regards to the T, I was still speaking of the original post, where the person who threw the object onto the floor was not afilliated with either team. Assessing a T in that situation just doesn't seem fair to me; although it would be allowed by rules.

Sorry for the confusion guys. Thanks for getting all worked up...:rolleyes:

Naw, we don't get worked up. Maybe we do point out rules errors though. As in.....your statement above. The rules, both NFHS and NCAA, do <b>not</b> allow an official to call a "T" on a fan that hasn't been definitively identified as a supporter of one of the teams involved. Dblref quite rightly has already pointed that out. Both of the citations given yesterday by Dan_ref also referred to "T"s given to team followers only, not some guy who just wandered in the door to watch the game and ain't really cheering for one team or t'other.

Actually, I read this to say that if the spectator interference creates a clear advantage for one team, you can make an assumption and issue the T. AR 15 says nothing about knowing who the spectator was supporting, and his action was in direct (even if unintentional) support of one team over another.

AR 14 that was also posted by Dan and that clarifies it a bit better imo. That one refers to penalizing a team's supporters. The NFHS rulesmakers also used pretty specific language in casebook play 2.8.1 too. That case play also refers to penalizing a team's followers or supporters. Any doubt, you don't penalize. The quote from that case play is <i>"While the authority is there , the official must rarely use it, because experience has demonstrated that calling hasty technical fouls on the crowd rarely solves the problem and may, in fact, result in penalizing the wrong team because the official may not have proper knowledge as to which team's supporters were responsible for the unsporting act"</i>.

Iow, no assumptions in either NCAA or FED games. Gotta know for sure.

Which brings us right back to the question we started with..... WHAT DO WE DO?:eek:

There's really no definitive answer. Go back to page 1 and pick something you agree with, I guess.

I have no rule basis to back up my answer, but based on this thread, it appears there is no definitive ruling to follow for this particular situation.

So that being said (assuming neutral court and/or no fan affiliation), I think I would treat it the same as an inadvertant whistle. In this case, there being no team control, I would go with the AP arrow. Of course now we would have to establish how much, if any, time was on the clock at the time of the interference. If there was no time on the clock, then the shooting team would just be screwed. As far as I can see, there is really no fair and equitable solution to the scenario.

Maybe this needs to be submitted to Chuck for his caseplay project?